4th Edition and the Forgotten Realms

This is the place where the leaders of the Chosen post news. News about the Chosen, news about drow/Eilistraee, news about NWN/NWN2 and news generally considered interesting to us. This is also the place where you can comment on those news items. :rss:

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4th Edition and the Forgotten Realms

Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:18 pm

Got some more information for you to share on 4[sup:2zjwq05i]th[/sup:2zjwq05i] edition.

First of all some general stuff. On the [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... e:2zjwq05i]Dungeons & Dragons website[/url:2zjwq05i] you can get some preliminary articles. Just Sign In to D&D Insider at the top-right of the page (don’t actually have to register yet it seems… just press to “Sign In” button to sign in as a guest) and read some of the articles there to get an idea of what direction they’re taking (like [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... a:2zjwq05i]Design & Development: Race[/url:2zjwq05i] and [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... b:2zjwq05i]Design & Development: Class[/url:2zjwq05i]).

They’ve also got some YouTube videos up of the unveiling presentation. First is a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc:2zjwq05i]Teaser Video[/url:2zjwq05i] and then the presentation itself [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3J8t2-RVs:2zjwq05i]part 1[/url:2zjwq05i] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M:2zjwq05i]part 2[/url:2zjwq05i] (linking a slightly different version than the ones linked on the site, since it’s fewer part and I think it’s a bit clearer). You can also find a number of interviews on YouTube (should be a fair number in the “Related” list with the above videos).

As for what this means for the Forgotten Realms I’ve got a few bits as well. First is the official [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=we ... 3:2zjwq05i]Gen Con event coverage – Forgotten Realms Seminar[/url:2zjwq05i]. Next to listing some products yet to come it says the following on the Forgotten Realms for 4[sup:2zjwq05i]th[/sup:2zjwq05i] edition:

[quote:2zjwq05i]August, 2008: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting for 4th Edition. We're hoping to have it out on or around Gen Con next year. Lots of plans for the Realms[html]—[/html]significant changes[html]—[/html]but Rich can't talk about details yet.

Next year will also have an as-yet unnamed FR product out, which players in Realms campaigns will want.

There will be a big event in the Realms soon, called the Spellplague. Rich says it won't leave a corner of the Realms untouched.

Cool, a new world map in the new CS. I really liked the one in the 3.0 campaign setting, so I'm looking forward to the new one. Mmmmmm . . . maps. Maybe I'm getting hungry. That weird muffin I ate this morning isn't doing much for me now that it's almost dinner time.

Someone suggests an interactive map feature for D&D Insider. I won't say we haven't been thinking about something like that. I'd love that utility. We'll have to take that back to the office and think on it some more.[/quote:2zjwq05i][quote:2zjwq05i] As far as RPG products, Rich also showcased the 4th Edition [i:2zjwq05i]Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting[/i:2zjwq05i], coming out August 2008, as well as a brand new [i:2zjwq05i]Realms[/i:2zjwq05i] adventure. Big, new stuff is definitely planned for the [i:2zjwq05i]Realms[/i:2zjwq05i], with some significant changes hinted at.

And with that, Rich opened the floor to questions. Chris Perkins mentioned, once more, that campaign setting information would be robustly supported on DnDInsider.com. Subscription prices were not announced, only that DnDInsider would include both editorial content as well as the online suite of tools such as the [b:2zjwq05i]D&D Gaming Table[/b:2zjwq05i], in a single subscription. For suggestions of content that folks would like to see online, Chris Thomasson also stated dndinsider@wizards.com would be the direct email address to use.

As far as maps, poster maps will be included in the campaign setting, as well as part of the adventures. Requests were made for more interactive, online maps, as well as a corrected map for [i:2zjwq05i]Expedition[/i:2zjwq05i]'s Yawning Portal Inn map.

Rich further hinted at what changes may be taking place with the new edition of the [i:2zjwq05i]Realms[/i:2zjwq05i] (involving world-changing events[html]—[/html]named the Spell Plague[html]—[/html]to explain changes, as opposed to ret-conning); and, that the first inklings of these events have been vaguely referenced in [i:2zjwq05i]Expedition to Undermountain[/i:2zjwq05i] and [i:2zjwq05i]Grand History of the Realms[/i:2zjwq05i], and will be more so in [i:2zjwq05i]The Orc King[/i:2zjwq05i].[/quote:2zjwq05i]
Not much there yet. Just that there’s an event called the “Spell Plague” coming which’ll change the rules of how things work ala the Time of Troubles.

Perhaps slightly more interesting to us is the following quote (of a quote) I found [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php? ... 1:2zjwq05i]on the forums[/url:2zjwq05i]:

[quote="Brian R. James":2zjwq05i]The regional feat concept is being dropped. The new trend for 4E and by extension the 4E FRCS, is to downplay statistical modifiers and rules to describe a characters cultural background or even subrace. Yes, that means gold dwarves and shield dwarves will have the same racial mods, just as all humans are the same regardless of region.

Since the follow up product to the FRCS is a player's guide of sorts, I suspect the FRCS will have little or no prestige class (which remain in 4E btw). Feats, Traits, Prestige Classes, Spells and the like will most likely be in the Player's Guide, thus leaving more page count for geography and Realmslore in the FRCS.

It was felt that the transition from 2E to 3E Realms was handled poorly, in that no in world explanation was given to justify the changes to the setting. The Retcon (retroactive continuity) philosophy of 3E "These changes have always been that way" is going away for 4E. A in-game explanation, ala the Time of Troubles is going to be introduced and it will be known as the Spellplague. Halaster's death in the recent Undermountain product lays the groundwork for this future calamity. There will not be a novel series to explain the Spellplague.

While the new FRCS will remain focused on Faer[html]û[/html]n proper (sorry Beyond Faer[html]û[/html]n fans), it was mentioned that areas that have previously received little coverage will be expanded upon. Of course we'll get a shiny new poster map as well.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I'm off to sleep...[/quote:2zjwq05i]
What this means exactly for drow I’m not sure… but considering the above-linked design article about races where they specifically mentioned drow (not Forgotten-Realms specific though) I’m getting the strong feeling that drow will become a separate race entirely… which could fit very well with some prophecies we’ve heard regarding Qilu[html]é[/html] being “[url=http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?T ... 3:2zjwq05i]mother to a new race[/url:2zjwq05i]” (and change the face of the Realms forever, which would fit all too well with shifting to 4E). And with Qilu[html]é[/html] playing such a prominent role in the Lady Penitent series, which will probably be concluded sometime in March and in which it seems the fate (and faith) of the drow will forever change…

I don’t know about you, but I’m getting the distinct impression that the pieces are starting to fall into place.

Either way, it looks like an interesting time ahead for the Realms (and, by extension, for us). I just hope we’ll still have an Eilistraee when all is said and done (and that we’ll be able to recognise her).


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Post by mizunofujin » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:41 am

I'm not sure if this is talked to death about, but I was trying to find out more information about Eilistraee's fate and stumbled upon this forum. So far, the closest i came to was an except from "The Orc King" By R.A. Savatore set somewhere about 100 years into the future. The excerpt can be found here from its sample chapters. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=pr ... /959867200

At the bottom of page 11,

[quote:31o9e51u]
(Drizzt speaking)"... I have watched the greatest cathedral in the world burn and collaspe. I witnessed the hope of the goodly drow, the rise of the followers of Eilistraee. But where are they now?"

"You speak in ridd-" the elf started, but Drizzt slammed him again.

"Gone!" Drizzt shouted. "Gone, and gone with them the hopes of a tamed and gentle world. I have watched once safe trails revert to wilderness, and have walked a dozen-dozen communities that you will never know. They are gone now, lost to the Spellplague or worse! Where are the benevolent gods? Where is the refuge from the tumult of a world gone mad? Where are the candles to chase away the darkness?"[/quote:31o9e51u]

I would be interested to know if anyone has found out anything more, and I apologise if this is the wrong forum/method to post this query.

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Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:33 am

We've had some discussion of it in Theological Debate (particularly [url=viewtopic.php?t=776:2enzkz09]this thread[/url:2enzkz09]; there's some more information than what you posted on page two there).

Of course, and this goes for anyone, if you've got more information to share we're all eager to hear it.


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Post by mizunofujin » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:01 am

thank you very much

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Post by Malek » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:17 am

It matters little what the rules say about drow and Eilistraee, though. Just because someone comes out and says "Drow are now a completely different race and Eilistraee doesn't exist" doesn't mean we have to adopt it. It would seem foolish to me to abandon what we've started here for some godforsaken rulebook.
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:10 am

But if we did that our future RP options would be restricted only to others who would forsake the new rules as well and the majority of D&D players have shrines in their basements dedicated to the Wizards. Not to mention that good drow lovers are a minority to begin with.
Harl l'drathir udos alure, Eilistraee lu'Anixiel ulu kyorl udossa zuch

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Post by Bhaern Quel » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:21 am

[quote="Malek":zjpwsbx4]It matters little what the rules say about drow and Eilistraee, though. Just because someone comes out and says "Drow are now a completely different race and Eilistraee doesn't exist" doesn't mean we have to adopt it. It would seem foolish to me to abandon what we've started here for some godforsaken rulebook.[/quote:zjpwsbx4]

Well we do, at least some of us, still look to second Edition for lore, because 3.0 F&P had less data. The bigist problem we might face is less lore or lore that is not acceptible. This depending on how Eilistraee is protrayed at the end of the current series. We do not have to accept changes to canon because of Edition change, just right now we do not know what changes will occur.

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Post by Malek » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:59 am

It just seemed that the voice of the previous posts had the sound of forboding and depression (or maybe I'm nuts :) ).

[quote:ys2illty]This depending on how Eilistraee is protrayed at the end of the current series.[/quote:ys2illty]

What series is this that you speak of? Is there a series of novels that explains all that happens in the Forgotten Realms?
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:45 am

I believe he's refering to the Lady Penitent trilogy, which is the continuation of the War of the Spider Queen.
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:45 am

[quote="Malek":1qs4azl3]It matters little what the rules say about drow and Eilistraee, though. Just because someone comes out and says "Drow are now a completely different race and Eilistraee doesn't exist" doesn't mean we have to adopt it. It would seem foolish to me to abandon what we've started here for some godforsaken rulebook.[/quote:1qs4azl3]
I'm not planning to abandon anything here for any reason. In fact, if Wizards does indead change things for the worse then my every intention is to completely ignore that, Wizards, and from that point on probably D&D in general. My intention is to stick purely to the setting the way it was before War of the Spider Queen (in fact, until I see the conclusion of the Lady Penitent series for me that entire chain of events never took place).

It'll just make things more difficult, it'd feel like Wizards would be abandoning us and telling us to take a hike. There would, at that point, be nothing new coming in from that direction. And it'd cause complications with new people in having to explain things (if it comes to that I definitely plan to have a sticky at the top of several forums explaining where we're at).

But let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. There's been indication that Eilistraee survives (together with Lolth and Ghaunadaur, with the latter being driven in hiding) and with Eilistraee remaining one would expect her to maintain some followers at least. We can build on that. Only question then, for me, is whether Eilistraee also remains a good deity.

My own hope with the changes is, with the 4E shift to "point of light" that, for the Forgotten Realms drow, Eilistraee becomes one of these point of light. Always the underdog, but remaining a beacon of hope within the drow's darkness. Her followers more scattered perhaps, brought back perhaps more to legend that few would believe ("good drow? Preposterous"), but still there and refusing to be eradicated, always holding on and always working to bring the drow back to the surface, dancing in the moonlight.

But we'll see. Either way, this site ain't going nowhere.


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Post by Doxa'era » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:19 pm

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1ff9jjlj][quote="Malek":1ff9jjlj]It matters little what the rules say about drow and Eilistraee, though. Just because someone comes out and says "Drow are now a completely different race and Eilistraee doesn't exist" doesn't mean we have to adopt it. It would seem foolish to me to abandon what we've started here for some godforsaken rulebook.[/quote:1ff9jjlj]
I'm not planning to abandon anything here for any reason. In fact, if Wizards does indead change things for the worse then my every intention is to completely ignore that, Wizards, and from that point on probably D&D in general. My intention is to stick purely to the setting the way it was before War of the Spider Queen (in fact, until I see the conclusion of the Lady Penitent series for me that entire chain of events never took place).

It'll just make things more difficult, it'd feel like Wizards would be abandoning us and telling us to take a hike. There would, at that point, be nothing new coming in from that direction. And it'd cause complications with new people in having to explain things (if it comes to that I definitely plan to have a sticky at the top of several forums explaining where we're at).

But let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. There's been indication that Eilistraee survives (together with Lolth and Ghaunadaur, with the latter being driven in hiding) and with Eilistraee remaining one would expect her to maintain some followers at least. We can build on that. Only question then, for me, is whether Eilistraee also remains a good deity.

My own hope with the changes is, with the 4E shift to "point of light" that, for the Forgotten Realms drow, Eilistraee becomes one of these point of light. Always the underdog, but remaining a beacon of hope within the drow's darkness. Her followers more scattered perhaps, brought back perhaps more to legend that few would believe ("good drow? Preposterous"), but still there and refusing to be eradicated, always holding on and always working to bring the drow back to the surface, dancing in the moonlight.

But we'll see. Either way, this site ain't going nowhere.


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Shir'le[/quote:1ff9jjlj]

I've read the whole War of the Spider Queen series and I thought it was pretty okay, though entirely outrageous in how all the drow could walk the planes of the gods and interfere with divinity. I'm not entirely up to date on the whole Drow situation in the Forgotten Realms, but we shouldn't be following Wizards so devoutly to begin with. This site should define its own drow and set of customs, but of course they can bear as many resemblances to Wizards as you feel comfortable with.

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Post by Malek » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:40 pm

[quote:30pvgbhw]I'm not planning to abandon anything here for any reason. In fact, if Wizards does indead change things for the worse then my every intention is to completely ignore that, Wizards, and from that point on probably D&D in general. My intention is to stick purely to the setting the way it was before War of the Spider Queen (in fact, until I see the conclusion of the Lady Penitent series for me that entire chain of events never took place).

It'll just make things more difficult, it'd feel like Wizards would be abandoning us and telling us to take a hike. There would, at that point, be nothing new coming in from that direction. And it'd cause complications with new people in having to explain things (if it comes to that I definitely plan to have a sticky at the top of several forums explaining where we're at).

But let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. There's been indication that Eilistraee survives (together with Lolth and Ghaunadaur, with the latter being driven in hiding) and with Eilistraee remaining one would expect her to maintain some followers at least. We can build on that. Only question then, for me, is whether Eilistraee also remains a good deity.

My own hope with the changes is, with the 4E shift to "point of light" that, for the Forgotten Realms drow, Eilistraee becomes one of these point of light. Always the underdog, but remaining a beacon of hope within the drow's darkness. Her followers more scattered perhaps, brought back perhaps more to legend that few would believe ("good drow? Preposterous"), but still there and refusing to be eradicated, always holding on and always working to bring the drow back to the surface, dancing in the moonlight.

But we'll see. Either way, this site ain't going nowhere. [/quote:30pvgbhw]

Hear, hear. Always will Eilistraee guide my footsteps.
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Post by Unen_Stealthfoot » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:41 pm

[color=indigo:1jrain8c]WHAT!? They're not going to explain Spellplague?! They should at least explain in some detail what all is going down in the Realms to cause all these massive changes.[/color:1jrain8c]
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:45 pm

Seriously, that's exactly what I though when I first heard. I mean, seriously, that's just lazy and stupid to have some huge change occur and not explain it.
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Post by Bhaern Quel » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:03 pm

Best I can tell, it will be explained in source book to some degree, magic stops working one way and those that survive have to find another way. *shrugs*

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