4th Edition and the Forgotten Realms

This is the place where the leaders of the Chosen post news. News about the Chosen, news about drow/Eilistraee, news about NWN/NWN2 and news generally considered interesting to us. This is also the place where you can comment on those news items. :rss:

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Arathen
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Post by Arathen » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:30 pm

Ghuanadaur was the first deity of the Dark Seldarine that the Ilythiiri worshipped when they started turning toward evil. First the blob-god, then those that didn't follow him were seduced by Lolth, all around the same time period...a few hundred years between, I think. Those of Miyeritar never actually fell prey to Ghuanadaur and Lolth
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Vendrin
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Post by Vendrin » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:17 am

Also, that was before Ghaunadaur was so stupid enough to remove the intelligence of all his ooze worshipers, causing him to loose a lot of worshipers and power.
"What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses evil perhaps in some way better than a man who has good imposed upon him?"

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Sancha
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Post by Sancha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:39 pm

[quote="Arathen":2ufemb8m]hmm...was this at a point before Vhaeraun was entirely evil? Or am I misunderstanding something about him? Because it seems odd that they'd worship both Vhaeraun and Eilistraee if he was anything like he was, by my understanding, at the point when his sister slew him and absorbed his portfolio. I'd also like to know where you're getting this info, mostly to sate my own curiosity.[/quote:2ufemb8m]

Well, this was probably about 20,000 years before the point in time that Vhaeraun was slain by Eilistraee...

Sources: Arcane Age sourcebook Cormanthor: Empires of the Elves, the novel Evermeet by Elaine Cunningham (with help from Ed, based on material he'd written for sourcebooks), and Demihuman Deities. There's another old book that also talked of the ancient elven histories from the First Flowering and Crown War periods, but I don't have that one anymore, (lent it to another DM that never returned it a few years ago).

Vhaeraun and his sister were close at one point, long ago. After their mother manipulated them both into helping her try to take out their father (she through trickery, he through blackmail), some of the Seldarine wanted her punished for shooting Corellon. Vhaeraun spoke in his sister's defense and pointed out that Eilistraee did not know of Auruashnee's plots, and said he would take her with him into exile. He picked her up and carried her out of Aryvandor (she'd been blasted by the divine wrath of Aerdrie Faenya). He was definitely jealous of her even at that point, but he didn't hate her or hold a grude against her until later (when she prevented him from brining all of the southern dark elves of Illythiri under his wing). Why would Vhaeraun have prevented his twin from being punished or executed by the angry Seldarine goddesses if he was that point 'wholly evil' and didn't care about his sister?
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Sancha
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Post by Sancha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:47 pm

[quote="Argoth":3b4ujx7o]Wait, where does Ghaunadaur go? I've read that before Lolth, most of the drow worshiped the G-blob. Was he and Vhaeraun at a point equally important? Could you state a time reference, who was the first worshiped deity and so on?[/quote:3b4ujx7o]

Vhaeraun first, from the First Flowering (around -30,000 DR) until the middle of the First Crown War/start of the Second Crown War. (around -12,000 DR?) Then Ghaunadar gained great inlfuence with the Illythiri, and then Lolth moved in on them as well.

The shifting of the Illythiri to worshipping members of the Anti-Seldarine happened pretty quickly, relatively speaking, over the course of a couple centuries, iirc. They were angry that their northern cousins had been invaded and conquered by the gold elves, and began the second crown war by attacking the allies of the gold elven kingdom of Aryvandar. Things quickly escalated once they turned to Ghaunadar and Lolth for the power to punish their enemies, and they started doing rather 'evil' things to their neighbours.
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Arathen
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Post by Arathen » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:23 pm

I don't remember that from Evermeet...but, in all honesty, it's been a while since I read that one, lol
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."

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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:25 am

[quote="Sancha":yy4yba1t]Vhaeraun and his sister were close at one point, long ago. After their mother manipulated them both into helping her try to take out their father (she through trickery, he through blackmail), some of the Seldarine wanted her punished for shooting Corellon. Vhaeraun spoke in his sister's defense and pointed out that Eilistraee did not know of Auruashnee's plots, and said he would take her with him into exile. He picked her up and carried her out of Aryvandor (she'd been blasted by the divine wrath of Aerdrie Faenya). He was definitely jealous of her even at that point, but he didn't hate her or hold a grude against her until later (when she prevented him from brining all of the southern dark elves of Illythiri under his wing). Why would Vhaeraun have prevented his twin from being punished or executed by the angry Seldarine goddesses if he was that point 'wholly evil' and didn't care about his sister?[/quote:yy4yba1t]
To be honest I don't remember it like that (from the Evermeet novel). The way I remember reading it Eilistraee chose voluntary exile since she foresaw a time when the drow would seek to return to good and would need a light to guide them. In fact, I don't remember anything of Vhaeraun speaking up for his sister (and the only reason why he didn't kill Eilistraee when he carried her off into exile was because Corellon forbade him to harm her).

I'm sure the two of them were fairly close at one point, but I think that was over even before the whole thing started, and Vhaeraun choosing to side with his mother (I don't recall hearing anything of blackmail before) was probably the final blow to whatever there was left of their relationship.

Anyway...


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Shir'le
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Arathen
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Post by Arathen » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 am

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":39h6k7a8][quote="Sancha":39h6k7a8]Vhaeraun and his sister were close at one point, long ago. After their mother manipulated them both into helping her try to take out their father (she through trickery, he through blackmail), some of the Seldarine wanted her punished for shooting Corellon. Vhaeraun spoke in his sister's defense and pointed out that Eilistraee did not know of Auruashnee's plots, and said he would take her with him into exile. He picked her up and carried her out of Aryvandor (she'd been blasted by the divine wrath of Aerdrie Faenya). He was definitely jealous of her even at that point, but he didn't hate her or hold a grude against her until later (when she prevented him from brining all of the southern dark elves of Illythiri under his wing). Why would Vhaeraun have prevented his twin from being punished or executed by the angry Seldarine goddesses if he was that point 'wholly evil' and didn't care about his sister?[/quote:39h6k7a8]
To be honest I don't remember it like that (from the Evermeet novel). The way I remember reading it Eilistraee chose voluntary exile since she foresaw a time when the drow would seek to return to good and would need a light to guide them. In fact, I don't remember anything of Vhaeraun speaking up for his sister (and the only reason why he didn't kill Eilistraee when he carried her off into exile was because Corellon forbade him to harm her).

I'm sure the two of them were fairly close at one point, but I think that was over even before the whole thing started, and Vhaeraun choosing to side with his mother (I don't recall hearing anything of blackmail before) was probably the final blow to whatever there was left of their relationship.

Anyway...


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:39h6k7a8]

Exactly. From what I remember of the story, that's pretty much how it went...Vhaeraun seemed kind of evil even then.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."

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Argoth
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Post by Argoth » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:55 pm

That's what I thought also. I am for ever grateful for the gift of foresight back then... Anyway thanks for the info. Now things have cleared up a little.

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Sancha
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Post by Sancha » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:12 am

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":ynm72pr0]
To be honest I don't remember it like that (from the Evermeet novel). The way I remember reading it Eilistraee chose voluntary exile since she foresaw a time when the drow would seek to return to good and would need a light to guide them. In fact, I don't remember anything of Vhaeraun speaking up for his sister (and the only reason why he didn't kill Eilistraee when he carried her off into exile was because Corellon forbade him to harm her).

I'm sure the two of them were fairly close at one point, but I think that was over even before the whole thing started, and Vhaeraun choosing to side with his mother (I don't recall hearing anything of blackmail before) was probably the final blow to whatever there was left of their relationship.

Anyway...


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:ynm72pr0]

I thought the thing with her volunteering exile because she foresaw a need to balance the evil of drow was from some of the sourcebook writeups on her, and it didn't go down quite that way in the Evermeet book. I definitely remember Vhaeraun demanding she share his fate in exile, rather than leaving her to the mercy of the angry elven goddesses. She was knocked out cold, after Aerdrie blasted her for shooting her father.

I'll check it out, I could be remembering it wrong. Need something to read the next couple days anyway. :P
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Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:05 am

Canon rule last released is true, I knew the acepting exile story. However if one of the newer books with FR logo says she was forced into exile by brother that is the "true" history.

Bigist problem with this is novels being canon and the authors do not know the source material and invent things that clearly do not apply to deity concept.

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Narsia Ny'Dhun
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:03 pm

What book was this from exactly? Methinks I'd like to read that.
Harl l'drathir udos alure, Eilistraee lu'Anixiel ulu kyorl udossa zuch

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jameslt0
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Post by jameslt0 » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:39 pm

According to the WotC website, All three of the 4th Edition core rulebooks are now at the printer. Check out this cake on the [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... a:rjnyrueo]WotC website[/url:rjnyrueo].

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Thalon Mercrow
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Post by Thalon Mercrow » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:05 pm

THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry it had to be said)

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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:37 am

So it's all done now and it's just a matter of waiting... will it fly or will it die? :p


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le
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