Ascendency of the Last

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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:25 am

[quote="Ix'Chimalxochitzin":3uw2l4pu]Well, though she didn't actually [i:3uw2l4pu]have[/i:3uw2l4pu] to die, one needs to keep in mind that Eilistraee's main goal was to give the good drow a chance at redemption. Now that that's happened... Eilistraee wouldn't really have a purpose anymore.[/quote:3uw2l4pu]
I disagree. How has that happened? Who is she giving a chance of redemption that didn't have it before by dying?

What happened is that her death [i:3uw2l4pu]removed[/i:3uw2l4pu] the chance of redemption for all those drow who are still stuck in the Underdark. Those who were turned into surface elves [i:3uw2l4pu]were already redeemed[/i:3uw2l4pu] (and in a heap of trouble now that they're a clearly visible target for any drow).

And yes, now they, now we, are relegated to being just another flavor of surface elf. Where's the fun in that?

Personally I feel that killing her is the worst thing that could happen and would've chosen to keep her around [i:3uw2l4pu]because her work is far from finished[/i:3uw2l4pu]. As long as there are evil drow there is a purpose to having Eilistraee.

It was the struggle between good and evil drow that was interesting, that was fun. It was the struggle to find a place on the surface that made the game worth playing. Now that they've effectively removed all the fun from the game, what's the point?


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Shir'le
F'sarn natha tithaur wun l'su'aco.

-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
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atiguy
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Post by atiguy » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:07 am

I agree with Shirle. Eilistraee was a champion and she should have been able to live to see her drow reform into dark elves and continue to lead and protect them. I was very upset that naxel and double upset that Cavatina did not make it out alive. They just didn't kill Eilistraee they killed Eilistraee's two mortal champions (Quilue and Cavatina). Even if Quilue had died she chose her sucessor prior she wanted Cavatina to take up the fight for Eilistraee on fae'run. wizards could have worked this out way better. I dont think Eilistraee's fight was over and i hate to think that whenever it would end theyd just toss her onto the fire and call it a day. She has/had more worth than that to her fictional followers and real life fans. Look at how poor Lelianna took it when she put her sword into Halistras head. She knew Eilistraee couldn't hear her but she cried out for the goddesses forgiveness anyway. I hate to think what wizards is going to do to Eilistraee's faithful. It's like vader hunting down and killing jedi and I hope wizards doesnt get this into there heads. I don't know how foten you other readers fall in love with the characters your reading about and cheering on but Cavatinas death hit me hard. She was a great representation of feminine beauty and strength who conquered her taint and became a greater leader through her trials. She died before her time. I think they scrapped Quilue before her time.

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Argoth
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Post by Argoth » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:23 pm

Well I didn't say it's ok she died. I'd still do anything to keep her around. And if not because, as Shir'le pointed out, her mission is far from over, simply because there was no deity as sexy as her.

Rooky darlin' you have a unique skill of presenting things in a very nice way.

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Narsia Ny'Dhun
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:09 pm

I think we were all of that opinion, Rooky's just the only one blunt enough to say what we were all thinking.

I could write a huge speech again, but it's all been said so I'm just going to say yet again that I'm on the side of everyone else opposing her death.

Well, I take that back, I have one thing more to say. Atiguy's Star Wars reference brings up a good point. Not the hunting down the Lady's followers part, but her dying was a lot like when the Balance went lopsided. Eilistraee gave balance to the drow as a race, and as so many have said it before, with her dead the drow no longer have a choice. They are now a stereotypical evil race again and the presence of a good drow will once again make as little sense as it did when Drizzt made his premiere.
Harl l'drathir udos alure, Eilistraee lu'Anixiel ulu kyorl udossa zuch

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steelfiredragon
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Post by steelfiredragon » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:16 am

nah that choice is just alot more lethal to make.

its either be evil now, be good and act like you dont give a rat's F(censored) fury lopsided, bleeding ass, or risk fleeing to the surface and disappear to make your own fate.


I personally never thought it was a good idea to draw that much attention to myself.
so to play a drow fighter, train hard enough to surpass the next three up and flunk each of those training tests to a low number in the count.


oh and there are drow in Pathfinder, instead of worshiping lolth( ip tp wotc), they worship various demons....

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Ix'Chimalxochitzin
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Post by Ix'Chimalxochitzin » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:54 pm

Shir'le, i meant that with the redemtion theme over with after 'her' drow were redeemed to dark elves, her work would essentially have been done. Because they are no longer drow themselves, it'd be far less likely for a Lolthite drow to be converted as the dark elves are going to be shot on sight again.

Personally, i'd have wanted to have Eilistraee and Lolth face off and either redeem the whole race into dark elves or just lift the curse and keep them as drow. I agree her work was far from finished, but given the redemption it made it impossible for her to keep on doing it. And Eilistraee being powerless to do what she became famous for... wouldn't really be Eilistraee imho. She doesn't strike me as being the type to rest on her laurels while half the dark elven race are still drow.

So yeah, i agree the redemption should have come, i just believe it happened too soon, and in a wrong way. It's like them shouting "Ohshi-- Eilistraee died lets save what we can NAO!" and in their panic forget about the long term consequences: ALL the remaining Drow now follow Lolth, and she's the only real deity they have left. They gave Lolth an army free of 'enemy' spies, and that might end up having done more harm than good. Even if they had decided on killing Eilistraee, just keeping the redeemed drow as racial drow (minus the curse's influence) would have prevented that from happening.
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Rooky
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Post by Rooky » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:59 pm

Ok, so my posts to tend to get very rude, very often. But seriously now;

Eilistraee isn't a shining beacon of light - far from it. Lawful deityes probably tend to shun her, as does everyone else. In 3.5E Elves tend to turn away their heads, pretending there is no such Drow goddess.

Priests of Corellon simply turned away pretending they heard nothing, which in a way always surprised me. True, they would never miss the opportunity to brag how their fagot pansy god survived a drow's arrow, but Corellon admited a long time ago, he is the father of Eilistraee, and it was known fact he aided in more then one way (...long time members of the forum will realize how much I struggle to admit this...). This little fact always made me wonder; Why did our Raised-to-godhood-Orlando-Bloom-in-make-up, ever teach his followers to embrace Eilistraee, and give such refugee drow a chance. But having how politics work on humans and always have, and given that Elves tend to be a bit more...immature...I can understand why they won't so much as hear about it after so many wars.
...
Their still pansies.

In any case, 4E's goin' down somewhat. Eilistraee's been around since 1E, and it was always a 50-50 thing, in unison with her Chaotic alignment. I remember more then one Plancescape campaign and session where we just HAD to run into the amassed Good aligned Drow in Svartfalheim (I hope I spelled it right). But then some twit decided that such a sweet setting was too good and no one wants it anymore. ( :'( )

*sigh* Live on with 3.5...wee...
:3

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Serath En'Sendaran
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Post by Serath En'Sendaran » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:02 pm

When I read about this... I almost came to tears.

That's all I can say here.
"Plynn ussta che, plynn ussta thac'zil,
plynn uns'aa vel'klar Usstan shlubnaut fre'sla,
Flamgra l'thac'zil lu'caghresst l'qu'mados,
dos shlubnaut plynn l'anulo dal uns'aa."

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Arathen
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Post by Arathen » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:25 pm

okay, these revelations from Gen Con got me even more riled up about this whole thing.

How are the drow now treated?
More drow now reside on the surface and exist more easily as part of very cosmopolitan cities—though, being drow, they are not exactly trusted.

How do you explain the greater acceptance of formerly sinister races?
For humans, three generations have passed, which has allowed time for a societal shift in thinking. The longer lived races are more mentally adroit at making these shifts, for their own sanity. That said, while these races (such as the drow) may be more common, they may well still carry some stigma. As for as players taking up these races, remember that player characters are exceptional beings.
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Serath En'Sendaran
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Post by Serath En'Sendaran » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:06 am

It all goes into that new more Politically Correct view that they have with the races for the new edition. Now dwarves and elves are more chummy, half-elves are considered oki-day, and there's never been any racial tension. It's not cool to hate another race, no matter the length of the beard, the point of the ears, the color of the skin... unless it's an Orc, Goblin, or Yaun-ti, because they're Bad Guys... well, unless someone plays one, then they're oki-day as well.

There's no need for background in the new rules, it seems. I mean, the real point behind the game is not to create stories of myth and legend, it's to... you guessed it... kill things and take their stuff!!!!

Don't need to be a hero or make a better world. That sort of thing isn't what sells anymore, it seems.
"Plynn ussta che, plynn ussta thac'zil,
plynn uns'aa vel'klar Usstan shlubnaut fre'sla,
Flamgra l'thac'zil lu'caghresst l'qu'mados,
dos shlubnaut plynn l'anulo dal uns'aa."

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Narsia Ny'Dhun
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Post by Narsia Ny'Dhun » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:42 am

I blame World of Warcraft and every other game like it.
Harl l'drathir udos alure, Eilistraee lu'Anixiel ulu kyorl udossa zuch

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Serath En'Sendaran
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Post by Serath En'Sendaran » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:47 am

Amen, amen.

It looks like Wot-zi decided that if they couldn't beat them, to join them.
"Plynn ussta che, plynn ussta thac'zil,
plynn uns'aa vel'klar Usstan shlubnaut fre'sla,
Flamgra l'thac'zil lu'caghresst l'qu'mados,
dos shlubnaut plynn l'anulo dal uns'aa."

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Post by Bhaern Quel » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:27 pm

[quote="Ix'Chimalxochitzin":8hsfva4y]Well, though she didn't actually [i:8hsfva4y]have[/i:8hsfva4y] to die, one needs to keep in mind that Eilistraee's main goal was to give the good drow a chance at redemption. Now that that's happened... Eilistraee wouldn't really have a purpose anymore.

[/quote:8hsfva4y]

Err her main goal was to redeem all Drow and bring them to the surface to live in peace with other races, also to worship her gaining her power.

Turning a few Drow that followed her into another race hardly was what she sacificed for in the first place.

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Aelistae
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Post by Aelistae » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:41 pm

Just thought I'd point out that Eilistraee hasn't been around since the original D&D (or 1st ed. as you put it). She first appeared in Ed Greenwood's 'Drow of the Underdark' in 1991, which was an AD@D (or 2nd ed.) supplement.

You can still purchase the pdf online, since it's the best description of the goddess in my opinion.


[quote="Rooky":3lnjuk26]Ok, so my posts to tend to get very rude, very often. But seriously now;

Eilistraee isn't a shining beacon of light - far from it. Lawful deityes probably tend to shun her, as does everyone else. In 3.5E Elves tend to turn away their heads, pretending there is no such Drow goddess.

Priests of Corellon simply turned away pretending they heard nothing, which in a way always surprised me. True, they would never miss the opportunity to brag how their fagot pansy god survived a drow's arrow, but Corellon admited a long time ago, he is the father of Eilistraee, and it was known fact he aided in more then one way (...long time members of the forum will realize how much I struggle to admit this...). This little fact always made me wonder; Why did our Raised-to-godhood-Orlando-Bloom-in-make-up, ever teach his followers to embrace Eilistraee, and give such refugee drow a chance. But having how politics work on humans and always have, and given that Elves tend to be a bit more...immature...I can understand why they won't so much as hear about it after so many wars.
...
Their still pansies.

In any case, 4E's goin' down somewhat. Eilistraee's been around since 1E, and it was always a 50-50 thing, in unison with her Chaotic alignment. I remember more then one Plancescape campaign and session where we just HAD to run into the amassed Good aligned Drow in Svartfalheim (I hope I spelled it right). But then some twit decided that such a sweet setting was too good and no one wants it anymore. ( :'( )

*sigh* Live on with 3.5...wee...[/quote:3lnjuk26]

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Argoth
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Post by Argoth » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:10 pm

Quote:

"its either be evil now, be good and act like you dont give a rat's F(censored) fury lopsided, bleeding ass, or risk fleeing to the surface and disappear to make your own fate. "

Like Viconia in the Baldur's Gate series.

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