Indeed more reviews would be usefull, but as far as Ed Greenward has been concerned in the past his position was he presented a starting place for play and each campaign never had to follow though with the changes. That is DMs did not have to accept all the ideas he offered as to how a character would act or prehaps even survive.
Ed has indicated he was hoping to save what if the realms he could, however a recent post by THO (The Hooded One) indicates his agent has not completed a deal with WotC to provide any more content at all.
It should be rememberred that Ed Greenwood drafted Eilistraee at TSR direction, that TSR no longer exisits.
Ascendency of the Last
Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel
the taking of the Mother piece was just symbolic of Lloth's "victory"...really didn't have anything to do with any domains or powers. The Mother, or Matron piece, is just the Sava game's version of a King piece in chess. So, yes, the taking of the Mother piece likely was symbolic of Qilue's death. I'm getting the book tomorrow, so I'll give my review when done with it.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
The intro to The Orc King also mentions Eilistraee being dead and that her clergy is in disarray because of it. I think in 4e she really is gone.
You all may want to consider going to the FR boards on the Wizards site and voicing your displeasure there. Several of the Realms designers do read and post there so you just may be heard.
You all may want to consider going to the FR boards on the Wizards site and voicing your displeasure there. Several of the Realms designers do read and post there so you just may be heard.
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Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2106
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
[quote="dav":43f5j57p]The intro to The Orc King also mentions Eilistraee being dead and that her clergy is in disarray because of it. I think in 4e she really is gone.[/quote:43f5j57p]
Actually the Orc King indicated followers were missing or hard to find, not that Eilistraee herself was gone.[quote:43f5j57p]
You all may want to consider going to the FR boards on the Wizards site and voicing your displeasure there. Several of the Realms designers do read and post there so you just may be heard.[/quote:43f5j57p]
It might be of some value, however WotC has in general adopted the policy that those that complain about any change are the minority, that those in general approve just will not be bothered to post things like.
"Such a Wonderful Idea? or other such praises. I do know members of design team claim fans will like the changes to the Realms, just they have not been released yet. *shrugs*
Actually the Orc King indicated followers were missing or hard to find, not that Eilistraee herself was gone.[quote:43f5j57p]
You all may want to consider going to the FR boards on the Wizards site and voicing your displeasure there. Several of the Realms designers do read and post there so you just may be heard.[/quote:43f5j57p]
It might be of some value, however WotC has in general adopted the policy that those that complain about any change are the minority, that those in general approve just will not be bothered to post things like.
"Such a Wonderful Idea? or other such praises. I do know members of design team claim fans will like the changes to the Realms, just they have not been released yet. *shrugs*
So, is anyone else going to stay in 3.5? Or are they jumping ship for greener pastures elsewhere.
I've been keeping a foot in both camps, I suppose. Still playing with back cannon, circa 1360's. But, I'm considering if I should jump to Greyhawk or even a whole different system.
I've been keeping a foot in both camps, I suppose. Still playing with back cannon, circa 1360's. But, I'm considering if I should jump to Greyhawk or even a whole different system.
Evil? So you say. But my god, my friends, and my brothers and sisters would disagree with you. You take care of yours and I'll take care of mine.
I'm really sorry for you guys, but the Lady Penitent books are nice to read. I believe many of the FR deities have their fans, but should that stop the creators from performing changes to keep their world moving and living?
[quote="Arathen":1tuz3wcm]okay, I talked to a friend that -has- the book, and from what they tell me (and I'm still gonna read the book), in the Epilogue, Eilistraee -doesn't- necessarily die. She allows Lloth to take her Mother piece and feigns death, and then Lloth moves to take another piece that is actually Eilistraee in disguise. Before Lloth can lay claim to all of the Drow, though, Corellon steps in and takes Eilistraee's place, turning all of her pieces from Drow black to a brown tone, and the only real change to Eilistraee's realm was that the moon became new rather than a full or half moon. [/quote:1tuz3wcm]
The second mother piece of Eilistraee was taken as well, but Lloth couldn't take the realm because in the same instant (as a result of an other event which was not connected to Corellon at all) all drow with a specific lineage, all redeemed drow and several hundred other drow became "dark elves". These, like all elves after dead, belong to arvandor.
Before the Epilogue, the book describes how a dead priestess of Eilistraee was led to arvandor. It was mentioned that all souls from Eilistraee's realm were to be moved to arvandor as well.
The rest of the drow are not imnune to redemption, but who would do that without Eilistraee?
[b:1tuz3wcm]Maybe there will be a new gothess in arvandor? Maybe Eilistraee reborn as an elf deity again? [/b:1tuz3wcm]
If not i'm curious to learn what all the living followers of Eilistraee will do and what will happen to her portfolio.
[quote="Arathen":1tuz3wcm]okay, I talked to a friend that -has- the book, and from what they tell me (and I'm still gonna read the book), in the Epilogue, Eilistraee -doesn't- necessarily die. She allows Lloth to take her Mother piece and feigns death, and then Lloth moves to take another piece that is actually Eilistraee in disguise. Before Lloth can lay claim to all of the Drow, though, Corellon steps in and takes Eilistraee's place, turning all of her pieces from Drow black to a brown tone, and the only real change to Eilistraee's realm was that the moon became new rather than a full or half moon. [/quote:1tuz3wcm]
The second mother piece of Eilistraee was taken as well, but Lloth couldn't take the realm because in the same instant (as a result of an other event which was not connected to Corellon at all) all drow with a specific lineage, all redeemed drow and several hundred other drow became "dark elves". These, like all elves after dead, belong to arvandor.
Before the Epilogue, the book describes how a dead priestess of Eilistraee was led to arvandor. It was mentioned that all souls from Eilistraee's realm were to be moved to arvandor as well.
The rest of the drow are not imnune to redemption, but who would do that without Eilistraee?
[b:1tuz3wcm]Maybe there will be a new gothess in arvandor? Maybe Eilistraee reborn as an elf deity again? [/b:1tuz3wcm]
If not i'm curious to learn what all the living followers of Eilistraee will do and what will happen to her portfolio.
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Merinid Tlin'orzza
- Regular
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:19 am
[quote="Noraimund":29bdbaxv]So, is anyone else going to stay in 3.5? Or are they jumping ship for greener pastures elsewhere.
I've been keeping a foot in both camps, I suppose. Still playing with back cannon, circa 1360's. But, I'm considering if I should jump to Greyhawk or even a whole different system.[/quote:29bdbaxv]
I really don't want to buy any of the newer material, since there are tons of the 3e/3.5e stuff around already, and its a working ok system. I don't like the whole bullshit online pay registration system they have planned.
To me, it really boils down to this, its just a game, and it is not manditory for me to go with the herd on things. If they make dumb changes, I don't need to unquestioningly go with it. This is exactly how Madson Ave works in manipulating American culture. I prefer not to drive around the city in a hummer paying through the nose for gas, I'll take mass transit or walk instead.
Just my 2 cents.
I've been keeping a foot in both camps, I suppose. Still playing with back cannon, circa 1360's. But, I'm considering if I should jump to Greyhawk or even a whole different system.[/quote:29bdbaxv]
I really don't want to buy any of the newer material, since there are tons of the 3e/3.5e stuff around already, and its a working ok system. I don't like the whole bullshit online pay registration system they have planned.
To me, it really boils down to this, its just a game, and it is not manditory for me to go with the herd on things. If they make dumb changes, I don't need to unquestioningly go with it. This is exactly how Madson Ave works in manipulating American culture. I prefer not to drive around the city in a hummer paying through the nose for gas, I'll take mass transit or walk instead.
Just my 2 cents.
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Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2106
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
[quote="Genkin":1rbwehgg]I'm really sorry for you guys, but the Lady Penitent books are nice to read. I believe many of the FR deities have their fans, but should that stop the creators from performing changes to keep their world moving and living?
[/quote:1rbwehgg]
Well it appears Ed Greenwood had no aproval of the changes and he was the creator. Also design team appears to be killing the Realms as oposed to letting it live. Waterdeep distroied, the Silver Marches failed, and so on. Oh added a new land mass and a new kind of dragonborn so that might be called living. [quote:1rbwehgg]
If not i'm curious to learn what all the living followers of Eilistraee will do and what will happen to her portfolio.[/quote:1rbwehgg]
Well the 4th campaign guide might answer this question, OTOH there might be a change in portfolio and domains, after all in part they depended on the Weave which will not exist.
[/quote:1rbwehgg]
Well it appears Ed Greenwood had no aproval of the changes and he was the creator. Also design team appears to be killing the Realms as oposed to letting it live. Waterdeep distroied, the Silver Marches failed, and so on. Oh added a new land mass and a new kind of dragonborn so that might be called living. [quote:1rbwehgg]
If not i'm curious to learn what all the living followers of Eilistraee will do and what will happen to her portfolio.[/quote:1rbwehgg]
Well the 4th campaign guide might answer this question, OTOH there might be a change in portfolio and domains, after all in part they depended on the Weave which will not exist.
1st: Nietshe is used both, by christians to give evidence that God is, and by atheists the He does not.
2nd: Someone mentioned that being far from redemption does not mean they are evil to the core. You are damned. You already know you're screwed and that Lolth will have a fun time with your ass. What do you do? Oppose her and probably get screwed even worse, or follow her in hope that eternity may not be all THAT bad.
3rd: So there actually is hope left... I am DYING to know what happens in the epilogue. And if possible, a QUOTE, or just a story of what is happening, without any arbitrary statements. Let us all look closely at what evidence we have. This is too serious altogether. And in that case I really DO hope the Lady is alive.
4th: Unbelievable. So the drow are no more, black turned to brown. Am I missing something? This does explain quite a bit, all the ambiguities we had about the color of Dark Elves before they were tainted and afterwards, I suppose it makes sense now. Only I find it stupid. Suddenly Corellon kicks in and accepts the Fallen ones once more. So actually, the drow may be damned for eternity, only that they are no more! The Dark Elves are redeemed. I don't know what to think about this.
2nd: Someone mentioned that being far from redemption does not mean they are evil to the core. You are damned. You already know you're screwed and that Lolth will have a fun time with your ass. What do you do? Oppose her and probably get screwed even worse, or follow her in hope that eternity may not be all THAT bad.
3rd: So there actually is hope left... I am DYING to know what happens in the epilogue. And if possible, a QUOTE, or just a story of what is happening, without any arbitrary statements. Let us all look closely at what evidence we have. This is too serious altogether. And in that case I really DO hope the Lady is alive.
4th: Unbelievable. So the drow are no more, black turned to brown. Am I missing something? This does explain quite a bit, all the ambiguities we had about the color of Dark Elves before they were tainted and afterwards, I suppose it makes sense now. Only I find it stupid. Suddenly Corellon kicks in and accepts the Fallen ones once more. So actually, the drow may be damned for eternity, only that they are no more! The Dark Elves are redeemed. I don't know what to think about this.
okay, quoting -directly- from the epilogue, so major spoilers here.
[i:2yeznpba]Eilistraee leaned forward, feigning a great sigh. She kept her eyes downcast, so Lolth wouldn't see a glint of gold in their depths.She lifted her Mother piece and squeezed hard, destroying it. The cut on her wrist opened, and her blood flowed. A drop of it fell on the Warrior piece [/i:2yeznpba](representing Wendonai)[i:2yeznpba], sizzled briefly in the hot flames that wreathed it, then vanished.
Eilistraee disappeared.[/i:2yeznpba]
And further along
[i:2yeznpba]Something was wrong. Eilistraee's realm should have disappeared with her. Yet it remained, just on the other side of the board. Forest, moonstone fruits, stars...Everything was there, except for the moon. It had vanished, from the sky, as if...
Yes, that was it. The moon wasn't gone; it was just eclipsed. Still up in the sky, somewhere. Just as Eilistraee herself was still here...somewhere.[/i:2yeznpba]
yes, Lolth goes on to unmask Eilistraee's mother piece, tipping it. For a moment, Eilistraee's realm wavers, but then...
[i:2yeznpba]"Not so fast, Araushnee," a male voice said. The point of a sword touched Lolth's chest.
Startled, she looked up.[/i:2yeznpba]
right into the face of Corellon, who had taken Eilistraee's place. Of course, what this means for our dear Eilistraee is hard to say. She could yet live, rescued in the last moments by Corellon...likely weakened, of course, but...it bodes well, I think. Regardless of Corellon's intervention, her realm likely would not have remained as it had if she had truly been slain. But, that's just my take on it. And of course, I still have the remainder of the book to read. I just wished to clear up any confusion with the prologue.
[i:2yeznpba]Eilistraee leaned forward, feigning a great sigh. She kept her eyes downcast, so Lolth wouldn't see a glint of gold in their depths.She lifted her Mother piece and squeezed hard, destroying it. The cut on her wrist opened, and her blood flowed. A drop of it fell on the Warrior piece [/i:2yeznpba](representing Wendonai)[i:2yeznpba], sizzled briefly in the hot flames that wreathed it, then vanished.
Eilistraee disappeared.[/i:2yeznpba]
And further along
[i:2yeznpba]Something was wrong. Eilistraee's realm should have disappeared with her. Yet it remained, just on the other side of the board. Forest, moonstone fruits, stars...Everything was there, except for the moon. It had vanished, from the sky, as if...
Yes, that was it. The moon wasn't gone; it was just eclipsed. Still up in the sky, somewhere. Just as Eilistraee herself was still here...somewhere.[/i:2yeznpba]
yes, Lolth goes on to unmask Eilistraee's mother piece, tipping it. For a moment, Eilistraee's realm wavers, but then...
[i:2yeznpba]"Not so fast, Araushnee," a male voice said. The point of a sword touched Lolth's chest.
Startled, she looked up.[/i:2yeznpba]
right into the face of Corellon, who had taken Eilistraee's place. Of course, what this means for our dear Eilistraee is hard to say. She could yet live, rescued in the last moments by Corellon...likely weakened, of course, but...it bodes well, I think. Regardless of Corellon's intervention, her realm likely would not have remained as it had if she had truly been slain. But, that's just my take on it. And of course, I still have the remainder of the book to read. I just wished to clear up any confusion with the prologue.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Post by Richard Baker on the Ask the Designers thread on the WotC FR boards yesterday (6-5-2008 ):
"Regarding Eilistraee's death... Markus put his finger on one of the biggest reasons. Other factors include the fact that Eilistraee's existence diminishes the exceptional nature of those drow who do break free of Lolth's influence, and the culmination of a major storyline that's been five years in the making."
The reference to another post by MarkusTay63 he mentioned is this one replying to a question about why Eilistraee had to die:
"She had to die because she 'complicated' the Drow Pantheon. The Drow needed to go back to their roots, and that meant Lolth and Lolth alone.
I don't like it, but I understand their reasoning."
"Regarding Eilistraee's death... Markus put his finger on one of the biggest reasons. Other factors include the fact that Eilistraee's existence diminishes the exceptional nature of those drow who do break free of Lolth's influence, and the culmination of a major storyline that's been five years in the making."
The reference to another post by MarkusTay63 he mentioned is this one replying to a question about why Eilistraee had to die:
"She had to die because she 'complicated' the Drow Pantheon. The Drow needed to go back to their roots, and that meant Lolth and Lolth alone.
I don't like it, but I understand their reasoning."
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Rooky
- Legend
- Posts: 1607
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- Location: A spooky wood, with man-eating little giant space hampsters
- Contact:
Bullshit.
4th ED seems to bring no joy, and many new complications I would not like to see;
D&D has far too many numbers for my taste as it is, but having the prospect of Eilistraee, Rooky's patron goddess...*HER* patron godess, shoved somewhere in the body/spirit/soul/ass of that fagot motherfucker... A-a ...I don't think so.
Still, Bhaern (again) is right. All our complaints are;
Useless
In vain
Futile
A waste of time.
(see: shit, cock, dildo, Barbara Streissand ...)
I would suggest we stick to the 3.5 D&D system if all else fails...We were our own little world to begin with, and staying so won't change anything...
But knowing Eilistraee is somewhere on the Astral Void, in partial stone is...
Painful...
...
My suggestion is we stay with 3.5, stay in our world, fuck the fuckers and keep her alive.
A small change in our rule system and a few tweaks and we'll be just fine.
4th ED seems to bring no joy, and many new complications I would not like to see;
D&D has far too many numbers for my taste as it is, but having the prospect of Eilistraee, Rooky's patron goddess...*HER* patron godess, shoved somewhere in the body/spirit/soul/ass of that fagot motherfucker... A-a ...I don't think so.
Still, Bhaern (again) is right. All our complaints are;
Useless
In vain
Futile
A waste of time.
(see: shit, cock, dildo, Barbara Streissand ...)
I would suggest we stick to the 3.5 D&D system if all else fails...We were our own little world to begin with, and staying so won't change anything...
But knowing Eilistraee is somewhere on the Astral Void, in partial stone is...
Painful...
...
My suggestion is we stay with 3.5, stay in our world, fuck the fuckers and keep her alive.
A small change in our rule system and a few tweaks and we'll be just fine.
:3
wow...I guess that tears it then. All our speculation can't really argue with Richard Baker giving us the truth of the matter. Damnit...
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
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Thalon Mercrow
- Resident
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