Ascendency of the Last
Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel
Over the years I've given you lot a lot of grief for being hippy-dippy moon-addled traitors to the race and all that ... but ... um ... you know ... this sucks.
I mean, I'm not an Eilistraee lover, obviously, but even I could see the value in Eilistraee, both from a role-playing perspective and a story-telling perspective. WotCs decision to kill her off is, well, stupid. I don't have any other word for it. I am not sure anyone at WotC really thought this through with regards to people who actually play drow PCs - unless their thought was "we don't really want people playing drow PCs anymore". Of course, if that was the case, why make drow a PC playable race in the upcoming Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book? Perhaps they were tired of the "good drow" cliche started by Drizzt - but then - kill off Drizzt, not Eilistraee. Eilistraee made sense in the Realms; her church made sense. No racial group like the drow is ever going to be 100% anything, be it good, evil, whatever. So there are going to be those who seek redemption, or at least a "good" life - and Eilistraee was the goddess of those people.
Anyway, I know I am preaching to the choir here so I will stop - I just wanted to express something we Lolthians are not particularly known for, which is my deep sympathy at the loss. It sucks, and I am sorry for you all - and frankly, I am a little sorry for me too because my world is just that much less interesting without Eilistraee in it. I whole-heartedly commend those who are going to ignore 4th ed. and go on with 3rd ed.
Though I do agree with Vendrin - include the War of the Spider Queen, but just have it end there - Lolth's new face/avatar has been chosen, Ched Nasad has fallen, and .. thats it. No need to go on with the ridiculousness that is the Lady Penitent books.
You know, years ago in ALFA my PC (a Lolthian priestess) was ... um ... well ... not Lolthian. She took a temporary (7 year) leave of absence from the Spider Goddess to be a follower of Eilistraee. During that time, she came to live at the Promenade.
Well, we had one great DM running the Promenade at the time but he left. Then a new DM came in, and suddenly Qilue was acting strangely, the promenade's defenses were not being maintained, etc. And this all culminated in an invasion of the promenade, not by followers of Ghaunadaur, but by followers of Selvetarm. Most of the Promenade's citizens and protectors and priestesses died, but three of us PCs managed to live and to defend to the last. The battle described in Ascendancy reminds me a great deal of that battle - and the point of this is that we, the PCs, thought that such a battle, and such a weak version of Qilue that made all these mistakes was so out of character for the Promenade and for Qilue (the Qilue we knew from earlier books) that we players up and left. It was just too far outside the bounds of faerun's "reality" - we played through it; we had to. But after words, we up and left the promenade (which is one of the things that led my PC to returning to Lolth).
Point being - it sucks when DMs and authors mangle established settings and milieus and characters to get their own personal agendas out; in this case, the "personal" agenda is actually WotC's business plan, but whatever. Its a situation where the in-character plot is being dictated not by what would happen in the world between those people and those gods, but by some executives at WotC and Hasbro and their marketing departments.
Anyway, as I said, it sucks and I feel for you all.
I hope you will have the common courtesy not too mention this to my fellow priestesses - I would have to deny it and sacrifice you to Lolth of course.
Ciao.
I mean, I'm not an Eilistraee lover, obviously, but even I could see the value in Eilistraee, both from a role-playing perspective and a story-telling perspective. WotCs decision to kill her off is, well, stupid. I don't have any other word for it. I am not sure anyone at WotC really thought this through with regards to people who actually play drow PCs - unless their thought was "we don't really want people playing drow PCs anymore". Of course, if that was the case, why make drow a PC playable race in the upcoming Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book? Perhaps they were tired of the "good drow" cliche started by Drizzt - but then - kill off Drizzt, not Eilistraee. Eilistraee made sense in the Realms; her church made sense. No racial group like the drow is ever going to be 100% anything, be it good, evil, whatever. So there are going to be those who seek redemption, or at least a "good" life - and Eilistraee was the goddess of those people.
Anyway, I know I am preaching to the choir here so I will stop - I just wanted to express something we Lolthians are not particularly known for, which is my deep sympathy at the loss. It sucks, and I am sorry for you all - and frankly, I am a little sorry for me too because my world is just that much less interesting without Eilistraee in it. I whole-heartedly commend those who are going to ignore 4th ed. and go on with 3rd ed.
Though I do agree with Vendrin - include the War of the Spider Queen, but just have it end there - Lolth's new face/avatar has been chosen, Ched Nasad has fallen, and .. thats it. No need to go on with the ridiculousness that is the Lady Penitent books.
You know, years ago in ALFA my PC (a Lolthian priestess) was ... um ... well ... not Lolthian. She took a temporary (7 year) leave of absence from the Spider Goddess to be a follower of Eilistraee. During that time, she came to live at the Promenade.
Well, we had one great DM running the Promenade at the time but he left. Then a new DM came in, and suddenly Qilue was acting strangely, the promenade's defenses were not being maintained, etc. And this all culminated in an invasion of the promenade, not by followers of Ghaunadaur, but by followers of Selvetarm. Most of the Promenade's citizens and protectors and priestesses died, but three of us PCs managed to live and to defend to the last. The battle described in Ascendancy reminds me a great deal of that battle - and the point of this is that we, the PCs, thought that such a battle, and such a weak version of Qilue that made all these mistakes was so out of character for the Promenade and for Qilue (the Qilue we knew from earlier books) that we players up and left. It was just too far outside the bounds of faerun's "reality" - we played through it; we had to. But after words, we up and left the promenade (which is one of the things that led my PC to returning to Lolth).
Point being - it sucks when DMs and authors mangle established settings and milieus and characters to get their own personal agendas out; in this case, the "personal" agenda is actually WotC's business plan, but whatever. Its a situation where the in-character plot is being dictated not by what would happen in the world between those people and those gods, but by some executives at WotC and Hasbro and their marketing departments.
Anyway, as I said, it sucks and I feel for you all.
I hope you will have the common courtesy not too mention this to my fellow priestesses - I would have to deny it and sacrifice you to Lolth of course.
Ciao.
AKA Sheyreiza Valakasha, Yathtallar d'Lolth, Princess of the Demonweb Pits, aka Ghenni'salla Tlabbar, aka L'olath'anon, the Dark Flower, aka the Valsharess of ALFA, aka ... well ... you get the picture.
- Shir'le E. Illios
- High Priestess
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- Location: Eilistraee.com
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Thanks Mikayla.
Though at the moment I feel like I'm saying goodbye to longtime friends and preparing to die, planning my own funeral, I'd like to say that there's always a space under the moon for you to dance with us.
And if not that then at least spread the word to ignore the 4E Realms, and 4E altogether perhaps (I don't care if it's a good system or not, supporting it is supporting the people responsible for this mess) and move to Pathfinder. The list of names on board for that (including Ed Greenwood and Elaine Cunningham... and a whole slew of other big FR names) is amazing.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
Though at the moment I feel like I'm saying goodbye to longtime friends and preparing to die, planning my own funeral, I'd like to say that there's always a space under the moon for you to dance with us.
And if not that then at least spread the word to ignore the 4E Realms, and 4E altogether perhaps (I don't care if it's a good system or not, supporting it is supporting the people responsible for this mess) and move to Pathfinder. The list of names on board for that (including Ed Greenwood and Elaine Cunningham... and a whole slew of other big FR names) is amazing.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
- steelfiredragon
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There's nothing more uniting then a common enemy.
Well it all boils down to WotC and their policy beacause they tell the writters the main supposition of the book, some key points of the story (which here would obviously include the utter defeat of Qilue).
And pathfinder is sorta cartoony like, but hell. I like it non the less. It has a special touch to it in all its comic strip and anime drawings.
Well it all boils down to WotC and their policy beacause they tell the writters the main supposition of the book, some key points of the story (which here would obviously include the utter defeat of Qilue).
And pathfinder is sorta cartoony like, but hell. I like it non the less. It has a special touch to it in all its comic strip and anime drawings.
I did not even know there WAS a Pathfinder RPG until this thread. I just checked it out and I think its very interesting - keeping 3.5 alive? Not a bad idea, especially if its tweaked a little for improvements. I read the Alpha version of the Pathfinder rules and they are not bad at all.
As for ignoring the 4E realms, and staying with a Pathfinder version of 3.5 Realms, I can get on board with that I think. From what I've seen of the new 4E realms ... well ... as has been said here many times, its not really the realms anymore, its ... something else with a few familiar names.
In TV parlance, it seems that WotC's 4E realms have "jumped the shark", at least from what information they've released so far.
As for ignoring the 4E realms, and staying with a Pathfinder version of 3.5 Realms, I can get on board with that I think. From what I've seen of the new 4E realms ... well ... as has been said here many times, its not really the realms anymore, its ... something else with a few familiar names.
In TV parlance, it seems that WotC's 4E realms have "jumped the shark", at least from what information they've released so far.
AKA Sheyreiza Valakasha, Yathtallar d'Lolth, Princess of the Demonweb Pits, aka Ghenni'salla Tlabbar, aka L'olath'anon, the Dark Flower, aka the Valsharess of ALFA, aka ... well ... you get the picture.
- steelfiredragon
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see, I know where everyone is coming from. I feel it too, and yet...
I'm not content to just wash my hands of the setting, of the system, when we haven't even seen what the new setting will [i:75hrsse4]really[/i:75hrsse4] be like. Perhaps I'm an idealist, but...call me what you will, I just can't do it. I'll look, when it comes out. I've played 4th, and I like the system. I just...can't write it all off.
I'm not content to just wash my hands of the setting, of the system, when we haven't even seen what the new setting will [i:75hrsse4]really[/i:75hrsse4] be like. Perhaps I'm an idealist, but...call me what you will, I just can't do it. I'll look, when it comes out. I've played 4th, and I like the system. I just...can't write it all off.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
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My sympathy also goes out to you all.
I salute your decisions not to give up on your dreams.
Btw, it's good to see you around again Mikayla. Please visit more often when you can.
I salute your decisions not to give up on your dreams.
Btw, it's good to see you around again Mikayla. Please visit more often when you can.
Last edited by Merinid Tlin'orzza on Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
trust me...my use of 4e isn't giving up at all...I fully intend on using Eilistraee, no matter -what- WotC says.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
A bitter sweet ending to a heroic goddess.
I only just finished the read of Ascendancy Of The Last moments ago. And I have mixed emotions regarding it. I think in the end some how some where Eilistraee is smiling and a father is more then happy to take up a fight his beloved brave daughter held so dear to her heart for so many centuries. I was deeply saddened for Quilue's fall and for what that abomination Halistra wrought on our adored Lady of Dance. Yet I cheered when Leliana bored her once magical sword deep into Halistras head. Eilistraee is a martyr and i'll admit that I'm happy she wont be forgotten (within the FR universe) but I stand with everyone else here when I say I would have deeply preferred a triumphant Eilistraee gleaming in the moonlight along side her father over the broken body of Lolth. Cavatina's death hit me hard, as she stood out for me in the book as someone who refused to fall from grace no matter what whos own outward beauty was overlapped by her strong devotion to her friends and Eilistraee. I smiled when Corellon appeared in front of a surprised then enraged lolth his sword at lolths chest telling her to back off and a cresent moon amulet hanging from his neck then turning to the sava board to take up his daughters war against and forgive my language..that eight legged bitch. I'm happy Qurland did not falter when he reversed the fairy fire curse and that Lelianna is alive but it couldve been more. But at least in the end ( and i was hoping he would) Eiistraee's father appeared to take p the call of song and sword against that damn spider and her ugly balor.
I just read it and I am speechless. Especially since I recall (vaguely) wizards stating that Eilistraee would be included in 4th edition (in one of the podcasts, I believe). Still, I will wait until the campaign setting is fully released before falling completely into despair.
Wizards [i:1h8mzh97]has[/i:1h8mzh97] resurrected dead deities before (Bane, for example, practically resurrected himself in 3.0) so I wouldn't put it past them to do it again. But still, it is a terrible way to end a plot.
I will wait and see what 4th edition brings and if it is true, then screw it.
Wizards [i:1h8mzh97]has[/i:1h8mzh97] resurrected dead deities before (Bane, for example, practically resurrected himself in 3.0) so I wouldn't put it past them to do it again. But still, it is a terrible way to end a plot.
I will wait and see what 4th edition brings and if it is true, then screw it.
- Shir'le E. Illios
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[quote="Lance":34z8t8va]Especially since I recall (vaguely) wizards stating that Eilistraee would be included in 4th edition (in one of the podcasts, I believe).[/quote:34z8t8va]
I'd be interested oin hearing such a podcast.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
I'd be interested oin hearing such a podcast.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
- steelfiredragon
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I've opted to mostly focus on my own campaign setting, using the Pathfinder rules. I'll post information on it sometime, if anyone's interested.
"Courage lies not in the lack of fear...but in doing something you are afraid to."
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Check out the progress on my book at http://kaavelbaelithar.deviantart.com/
Turns out it wasn't a podcast, but I found it:
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... =121&sp=60
[quote:4fb6e3m5]Although this has already been revealed in the novels, most of the Drow gods have been axed. All that's left is Lolth, Eilistraee, and Ghaunadaur. Later Ghaunadaur is attacked by Lolth and moves to the Deep Caverns.[/quote:4fb6e3m5]
Now, I don't know how correct or up-to-date this information is (it was written almost a year ago, after all). But since the majority of the events mentioned in the post has so far proved correct there is a small hope.
If the "death" of Eilistraee was the "culmination of a major storyline" I find it unlikely that wizards would change that storyline when the first two books of Lisa Smedman's trilogy had already been released. If this is true I see two possibilities:
1) Wizards changed their minds in the last minute and decided to kill of Eilistraee to make Drizzt more cool
2) Eilistraee isn't dead or will return.
Wizards do have a history of resurrecting dead dieties. Bane resurrected himself and Torm was likewise restored by Ao because he died fighting for the ideals he represented.
I'll try to get some kind of confirmation that the quote is actually correct.
But I would wait nuking wizards until the FR sourcebook has been released, there is still room for change.
Lance out.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... =121&sp=60
[quote:4fb6e3m5]Although this has already been revealed in the novels, most of the Drow gods have been axed. All that's left is Lolth, Eilistraee, and Ghaunadaur. Later Ghaunadaur is attacked by Lolth and moves to the Deep Caverns.[/quote:4fb6e3m5]
Now, I don't know how correct or up-to-date this information is (it was written almost a year ago, after all). But since the majority of the events mentioned in the post has so far proved correct there is a small hope.
If the "death" of Eilistraee was the "culmination of a major storyline" I find it unlikely that wizards would change that storyline when the first two books of Lisa Smedman's trilogy had already been released. If this is true I see two possibilities:
1) Wizards changed their minds in the last minute and decided to kill of Eilistraee to make Drizzt more cool
2) Eilistraee isn't dead or will return.
Wizards do have a history of resurrecting dead dieties. Bane resurrected himself and Torm was likewise restored by Ao because he died fighting for the ideals he represented.
I'll try to get some kind of confirmation that the quote is actually correct.
But I would wait nuking wizards until the FR sourcebook has been released, there is still room for change.
Lance out.