4E: What do we do?

[Argoth]

At level 20 the bard can his opponent die of joy or sorrow. The creature must be able to hear the bard for 1 full round and be withing 30 feet. The target receives a Will Saving throw (DC: 10 + 1/2 bard's level + his cha mod). If the save succeeds the target is staggered for 1d4 rounds and [i:2455leun]deadly performance[/i:2455leun] cannot be used on the target for the next 24 hours. If the saving throw fails, the target simply dies. The ability incorporates a verbal and somatic component, it's a mind affecting death effect. Cool, huh?

Another nice thing they've done was upgrading the sorcerer class. D&D manuals say the sorcerer gets his magic intuitively, usually because there was a magical creature in the family tree (dragon, demon, fey etc). Now in Pathfinder the player actually chooses which one was it, and can get many different extra feats, skills and spells as the character advances. You can choose between dragons (different types with different effects), demons, devils, fey, arcane creatures or powerful magicians and many, many more. Makes me want to adapt the mechanics to my FR campaigns.

[Thalon Mercrow]

AH! well if its an abilty that you get at 20th levl then thats a bit diffrent,it wouldint make much sensne to give a first lvl bard the ablity to kill useing bardic songs but if he gets it at 20th i that i can understand and like. *imagins bard rocking so hard that heads explode or faces melt off!!!)

as for the bloodline thing its nice to see that there incorparating that as well.in dragon mag #311 they have a rahter large artcical on bloodlines and what they entilite the PC's to.

[Argoth]

[youtube:3vr6ykqd]80DtQD5BQ_A[/youtube:3vr6ykqd]

Deathly performance.

[Thalon Mercrow]

jack black=epic levle bard


seriosly theo you win the internets argoth thats exactly what i was thinking of when i first saw your whole "Deathly performance" thing...well that and a face welting gutair solo!

[Bhaern Quel]

[quote="Argoth":pirfcyj6]

Deathly performance.[/quote:pirfcyj6]

After seeing that, I am glad I do not have a sound card installed.

Killer bards?
Bards are not intended to kill.

[Argoth]

The brow had a class of bards that killed, as mentioned (and I'll never get tired of referring to that book) in Windwalker. But that was a prestige class and seemed to be made specially for drow.

I see your point Bhearn, but there's more to that. The bard class also has no alignment restrictions in Pathfinder and gets a kind of curse songs (like in NWN 1 when you chose a special feat you could curse your opponents instead of buffing your party), so the solution I'd find best is restricting these songs to alignment, like clerics and druids can channel their spell's energy to either heal at any time, or cause damage at any time. Evil bards would have curse songs and kill at lvl 20, and good aligned bards would heal/buff/affect the party and maybe even resurrect, but that does seem odd as the target of bardic music should be able to HEAR and/or SEE the performance. At any rate I'm not too content with what they did to the bard (specially no alignment restrictions), but on the other hand it is something worth pursuing all the way to lvl 20. Like it was mentioned before, the whole purpose of introducing those changes is to give players a reason to play a single class character throughout their campaigns/adventures.

Another thing is what Shir'le said in a different topic that the skill system doesn't work as good as everyone thinks. Skills are needed to the Role-Play mechanics, feats to boost fighting abilities. So why can't a sorcerer have skill bonuses? A wizard has to have high Int and thus gains additional SPs either way and being devoted rather to the scientific side of magic (being locked up in his study and adventuring to gain more spellbooks, reveal secrets and gain knowledge), the sorcerer, being an intuitive user of magic and having no need for spellbooks travels a lot, typically more often than wizards do. And if they travel they should be more prepared for different conditions (so at least a 4 + Int Mod would be nice). The bard and rogue classes are best at this. A well balanced skill sheet of a bard gives the character almost unlimited possibilities to survive in any conditions, be it a city, the woods, some snow covered mountain range, you name it. A bard with high Int is extremely versatile. Just two feats to boost the bard's fighting abilities are sufficient to make the character a quite proficient fighter without being extremely strong.

[Thalon Mercrow]

ok forgive me for asking this, i know weve beat this issue to death with a stick, cast [i:345ak2wr]raise dead[/i:345ak2wr] and then beat it to death again a thounsand times but.. what part do we ingnore and what part do we keep? spesificaly at what year do we compleatly ignore form then onward(ovbeisly we ingnore the year she suposedly [i:345ak2wr]"died"[/i:345ak2wr]) what im asking is do we ingore 1379 DR onward?
because iv been doing research and [b:345ak2wr]suprise,suprise [/b:345ak2wr]alot of the chacters and things we love about the relm have been complealty destoyed in case you havent figured it out by now (case in point the red wizreds of thay have been reduced to a lose knit group of merchents,halaster and most of drizets crew are dead,etc,etc)

[Vendrin]

I'd suggest you make the cut in the timeline wherever the GM decides to. Simple as that. That allows any game to have unique experiences.

[Aylstra Illianniis]

I read that pathfinder bard class and found it pretty cool. I also think that if you don't like the things that have been done, you should just keep your timeline before she died and the Spellplague and all of that mess/nonsense. I'd start the timeline during the middle of Lady Penitant and work in a different sort of conclusion to the events there- ie, Hallistra realizes Lolth is playing mind games with her and surrenders to Eil instead of killing her would be one idea.