DM Banned Classes/Books

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:16 am

Well, we're in the camper trailer- but at LEAST he was nice enough to run net out here for me!! And I'm totally with you on the unemployment issue.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:43 am

Yeesh I hope you guys are someplace warm!

Anywho, back on topic. Any classes you feel are under powered? Personally I've asked players not to play Paladins unless they plan on going into a prestige class that makes sense. I've had a few min/maxers go 3 and out on a Paladin with a couple levels of Sorc to get into Dragon Disciple and have untouchable saves.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:12 am

It's okay, the camper has heat and electricity- even TV and our x-box. It's like a little mini-apartment, lol!

Back on topic- I do think that bards are a bit underpowered compared to most classes. I liked the Pathfincer version better, as it made them more in line with some of the "broken" classes. A nice fix for my fave class. I never thought paladins were underpowered, especially with some of the variants and divine feats, and the fun stuff from Exalted Deeds.

If anything, the most underpowered class is either wizard or sorcerer. The sorcerers get so few abilities, the number of spells just doesn't make up for it. And I hate how wizards only really get a few metamagic feats and a familiar. (NONE of my wizards have EVER had one. I've always considered the drawbacks too great for the few advantages.) Pathfinder seems to have fixed a lot of the classes in that respect- monks too. Not that monks were underpowered, but I like the better choice of level abilities they added.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:45 pm

In defense of Wizards and Sorcerers at higher levels they tend to dominate combat, especially if your party contains BOTH. This allows the Wizard to act as a tool box while the sorcerer becomes a combat GOD. Also remember, the Locate city bomb I mentioned about was done with a Human Sorcerer, you could do it with ANY race it just may take a level or two more to get the feats.

A well played Bard with the right spell selections is the most indirectly powerful class in the game. Sure he won't smite the big bad but he'll make DAMN sure EVERYONE has what they need to do it. Bards are walking tool-boxes and only seem to get a bad rap because most of the people that play them get shoe horned into it. The most fun I've ever had was playing a bard and I don't think I even killed anything.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:52 pm

Well, the reason I tend to think of the wiz/sor as "less powerful" is that not matter how powerful they are, they WILL eventually run out of spells, and not all of their spells are even useful in combat. Granted, there is nothing to top a wizard with a 10d6 fireball blowing the enemies to kingdom-come, but by the time he reaches that level, most enemies are FAR more powerful than a handful of orcs, and most of the smart ones will have some sort of protections from said fireball. So over-all, the "beefy" classes have the advantage against most foes.

My former game group had terms for the various classes that seem to fit rather well. Wizard and sorcerer types were "squishies" while the hardier "tanks were "crunchy" classes (both terms referring to how they taste to a dragon or other large monster. The armored classes are the crunchy ones Then we had the "chewies" or the lightly armored roguish types.)

I used to play a lot of fighter/wizard crosses back in 2nd ed, but since 3.5 came out, I've been playing bards and palis, mostly. And you're right, a bard can be a truly amazing PC with the right concept. I have grown especially fond of my drow bard Lothir, whom I originally played as a standard bard in 2 ed, but when 3.5 rolled in and all the supplemental books started giving me more options, I turned him into a dervish/spelldancer type, which is actually quite deadly in melee, in addition to being the buff-giver! He may not be the "tool-box" that most bards are, but there's no question that he does his share of slicing and dicing in the melee situations. And provides plenty of entertainment, on top of it.....

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:43 am

The most powerful spells in D&D don't do damage in dice. As a DM I learned that the hard way, too many of my recurring Villains died in their early encounters through failed Will checks. Any feat/spell/item that modifies a caster's caster level is worth investing in. Let the Fighter cleave his way through the ranks of mooks while your Wizards preps a spell to simply [i:2dkfuzjg][b:2dkfuzjg]WILL[/b:2dkfuzjg][/i:2dkfuzjg] the dragon dead.

I've begun using phrases borrow from TV tropes to explain to my players why the Villain always seems to make his/her saves when they are running away.

Player: How did he make his save/tumble away/etc? I Critted/rolled max/etc!

ME: It's the main-villain/right-hand man, he has plot armor.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:11 am

LOL! Plot armor- I'll have to remember that one the next time my players gripe!

Anywho, That might be true enough, but I've also found that there are few NPC's (or PC's, for that matter) who can withstand a good magical attack that deals plain old physical damage. No matter how much resistance they have, that Mordenkainen's Sword or Bonefiddle is going to f*** them up.