DM Banned Classes/Books

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:20 pm

Before I get too into things I'd like to say "Hi everybody! I'm Baaack!!!" I've been on a very long hiatus for a number of reason I won't go into here. Now on the with topic.

I was recently in a 3.5 campaign in which the DM banned several books and classes from his campaign for no more reason than he felt they were too powerful. As a DM I have restricted the races and classes my players have access to for a number of reasons, most notably campaign flavor or to get the min/maxer in the group to make up his damn mind but not since the aforementioned min/maxer joined the group have I simply banned a class because it was "too powerful" or "not from a WoTC book" because through clever use of the least powerful core class (fighter) and least useful race (half elf) he swiftly broke my campaign over his knee.

In this most recent campaign I wasn't even the one effected as I had been planning on playing a Drow Wizard and moving away from my combat oriented characters for some heavy RP. Sadly virtually everyone else in the group WAS effected, a race here, a class there, that sort of thing. It took so long to create characters that passed his ridiculous qualification that I decided to teach him a lesson in the form of the infamous "Locate-City Bomb." I created a human Sorcerer and as we were begining play at 5th level it took 3 more levels and 2 months of painful campaigning to pull it off but it was well worth the look on his face when I cast a level 1 spell (technically 4 via metamagic) and killed creature in an area the size of Ohio.

So this brings me to my questions.

To the Players: How do you deal with over restrictive DMs? An Similar stories?

To the DMs: Do you have any ways other than campaign flavor to justify restricting the available books? Has something similar ever been done to you? Are there any books you usually ban and why?

Also for the curious/vindictive the "Locate City Bomb" is as follows:

Locate city (Races of Destiny) - 10 mile/level radius, finds city of named size

1. apply snowcasting (Frost Burn) - spell now has the cold descriptor
2. apply flash frost feat (PHB2) - spell now deals 2 points of cold damage to all in area (and makes area slippery but we don't care about that)
3. apply energy substitution (electricity) (Complete Arcane) - spell now deals electricity damge
4. apply born of three thunders (CArc) - spell deals half electric, half sonic, but what is important is that it now requires a reflex save, allowing us to...
5. apply explosive spell (CArc) - all creatures in area that fail their reflex saves are shunted to the outside of the area of effect (10 miles/level) and take 1d6 damage per 10' moved

Minimum caster level of 8, dmg: 42240d6

All from WotC books, individually innocuous, as a whole, broken.

Tyrmer · Post by **Tyrmer** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:50 pm

As a DM I tend to disallow the psionics book(s) for 3.5. But then again, I am a complete and utter munchkin who just plays human fighters XD

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:01 am

I used to ban Psionics too but since 3.5 they're no more broken than any other mage.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:01 am

Oh. My. God. As both a player and DM (usually on the DM side of the screen) I have only ever BANNED one book- the Magic of Arcanum, after one of my players used a class and abilities from it to utterly DESTROY a campaign right out of the box- at level1!! Suffice to say, this gamer is a min/maxer with ADD, in other words, the kind of player who looks for the most potent combos, and then quickly tires of them after breaking them.

After he got the entire party literally chased out of the starting campaign city in the first session- by breaking them out of prison using a Necrocarnum zombie created from one of the prison guards, (yeah, great way to endear yourself to the locals...) I looked through the book a second time (the first thumb-through had seemed innocuous enough- silly me!!) and decided that not only was most of it overpowered for my campaign, but it did not fit the flavor, either. The only other book I've tossed out was Book of Nine Swords, simply because there was nothing in it to fit my campaign world. However, that is not to say there were not character ideas that I would not allow under the right circumstances.

As a general rule, though, I do not allow races with a LA of more than +2 (+3 if I think it's justified) in my games. The one time I allowed anything higher, a player promptly rolled up a chain devil (wtf?) with a level buy-off, and it sent the game spiraling into the Abyss of ridiculousness. NEVER AGAIN.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:11 am

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":am1qietr]Oh. My. God. As both a player and DM (usually on the DM side of the screen) I have only ever BANNED one book- the Magic of Arcanum, after one of my players used a class and abilities from it to utterly DESTROY a campaign right out of the box- at level1!! Suffice to say, this gamer is a min/maxer with ADD, in other words, the kind of player who looks for the most potent combos, and then quickly tires of them after breaking them.[/quote:am1qietr]

See that was just rude of him, I only break games that need breaking. I don't think I've ever even thumbed through that book, whats it about?

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":am1qietr]The only other book I've tossed out was Book of Nine Swords, simply because there was nothing in it to fit my campaign world. [/quote:am1qietr]

That makes sense, I've banned it for the exact same reason before. Although I love that book to the point that I've used Crusaders to supplant the terrible core Paladin. It's nice to play a Melee character who does something new at later levels rather than simply crunching bigger numbers with a Greatsword.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:16 am

As near as I can tell, MoI is some sort of spirit-magic using souls to fuel the abilities of the classes in it. Yes, SOULS. Both dead and unborn, which is entirely wrong for the cosmologies of most worlds. Essentially, as I read it, it infused soul-power into whatever the PC does. And the races and classes, while interesting, were broken from the moment they left the gate.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:30 am

Yeah that would get hit with the ban stick from me because as you said, it breaks the cosmology of most settings.

That's a perfectly good reason to say no to a book (I've had people argue against it before) but this guy was nuts. Nothing that isn't WotC, no book of nine swords, no feat compliations, feats from the complete series are fine but the classes are out, no explanation offered, no creative back story passes, if it wasn't on his list of accepted books it didn't make it in.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:28 am

Now that's just dumb. If I were you, I would find another DM. He's far too picky for anyone to really have fun.... My DM philosophy is to let a player try something as long as it's not game-breaking or disruptive, and let them enjoy playing what they want. I've only had a few cases where players tried to take advantage/abuse that rule. So far, it works most of the time, and everyone has fun.

Plus, there are so many great ideas in some of those other books that more often than not, I find ways to work them into the campaign! The Seeker of the Song PrC from CAr even gave rise to a goddess in my games, who is concerned with cosmic harmony, music, astronomy, and the order of the multiverse. So my cosmology takes into account the concept of "music of the spheres", a great reason to play a bard! (My fave class...)

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:50 am

We didn't really have much of a choice, several of us were Jonesing to PLAY 3.5, I had been DMing for so long I'm not sure I'll ever be able to DM again, and everyone else in the group was too chicken to DM. Sometimes your options are, bad DM or no game. To his credit he's begun to loosen up and I'm now playing the character I originally intended to play.

The other group I play in has "that guy" who refuses to play anything but a handful of systems, d20 not among them... If we have to use the home brew system we've cooked up for something like D&D again I might just snap.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:57 am

Ugh, I'm sorry. That sucks. Have you tried advertising for new players? Library bulletin boards or the net are good places to start looking. Or you could try mixing up your game groups- get them all together in one place and time, and you might get another DM that way. Just throwing ideas out there. Personally,

I'm in a gaming black hole myself right now- new town, don't know anyone, and rural area with nobody interested in gamins AFAIK. The library has a manga club for kids, but nothing to indicate that anyone in the area is a gamer. And my hubby and I are looking for older players, to be honest.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:06 am

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":1vbsjfvp] Or you could try mixing up your game groups- get them all together in one place and time [/quote:1vbsjfvp]

Oh God, that would be BAD. some of the people know and dislike each other... a lot. As a matter of fact one of the chief reasons I game with one of the groups is because one of the guys in the group HATES me with a fiery passion but lacks the cajones to say anything to my face, so I show up, act SUPER nice to him and watch him squirm.

[quote="Aylstra Illianiis":1vbsjfvp] I'm in a gaming black hole myself right now- new town, don't know anyone, and rural area with nobody interested in gamins AFAIK. The library has a manga club for kids, but nothing to indicate that anyone in the area is a gamer. And my hubby and I are looking for older players, to be honest.[/quote:1vbsjfvp]

Wow sounds like where I grew up, I didn't get into gaming until I moved away to college and had people my age to game with. Sometimes the best you can do is get an group together on a teamspeak server and game that way.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:16 am

Not really an option here. I'm on dial-up, for one, at least at the house. Which precludes any kind of team-speak server on games (as if the dial-up could even HANDLE most games...) and so far we haven't met ANYONE our age or near, let alone gamers. It sucks living in a rural area where the only people you meet are rednecks who have never even SEEN a d20!!

BTW, that's just E-VILL!!!

(Yet strangely funny...)

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:29 am

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":2xph5evz] Not really an option here. I'm on dial-up, for one, at least at the house. Which precludes any kind of team-speak server on games (as if the dial-up could even HANDLE most games...) and so far we haven't met ANYONE our age or near, let alone gamers. [\quote]

Ouch, there isn't even a rural wireless provider or satellite in your area? Also you may be able to tether your cell phone depending on the model and provider.

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":2xph5evz] It sucks living in a rural area where the only people you meet are rednecks who have never even SEEN a d20!![/quote:2xph5evz]

I'm from Nebraska. 'Nuff said.

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":2xph5evz] BTW, that's just E-VILL!!!

(Yet strangely funny...)[/quote:2xph5evz][/quote:2xph5evz]

He hates me for a very VERY good reason but what I did to him had a better reason.

Aylstra Illianniis · Post by **Aylstra Illianniis** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:38 am

Well, yes there are, but we're living with my folks, and my dad's a cheapskate who won't pay for either. My cell's a cheapie prepaid, so that's kinda out, too. Tight budgets and boondocks living do not for good gaming make, sadly.

Alak Xiltyn · Post by **Alak Xiltyn** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:42 am

Cheers to that, I'm stuck in my sister's basement and have been unemployed for several months so I can whole heartedly relate.