[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0][quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0]According to the 2e Menzo source, Eilistraee's faith is very limited in that city. Vhaeraun's cult -while still small- is more diffused, especially among young drow, travelers, or people dissatisfied with the stagnation and non-existent growth caused by Lolth's oppression (even tho IMO those could make excellent followers of Eilistraee, as cooperation among drow and growth as a people is among what she fights for). He also has traitor-priestesses who act as spies and infiltrators, while pretending to serve Lolth, aided by their god's magic which shields them against mind probing.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
I read a novel that I think featured that spy priestess thing.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Starlights and Shadows trilogy, by Elaine?[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
[i:w3d2gfd0]Tangled Webs[/i:w3d2gfd0]. I'm not sure if it is part of a trilogy. I don't have a very large number of Forgotten Realms novels. I find the novels for the setting a bit overwhelming (compared to other D&D worlds with novels) as there are so many of them. Dragonlance is a bit overwhelming too. I've read all the Spelljammer novels years back (and was impressed with Elaine Cunningham's writing). I've been trying to tackle more manageable novel lines. I've got most of the (good) Greyhawk novels. I've even got all of the DragonStrike novels. I've read the Maztica trilogy, as they deal with a FR subsetting rather than all of Faerun. I might try to get a list of all the Underdark novels at some point and read those. (Maybe I should start a thread for drow novels, if there is not already one for them.)
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0][quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0]Eilistraee worship has always been quite secretive and small, even on the surface, because of the heretic hunts run by the Lolthites and the misunderstanding and prejudice -even hate- by people like many humans or elves.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Has anyone here ever compiled a list of locations where Eilistraee and the various other drow deities have churches? Is there a lot in the canon or do people generally have to make most of it up themselves?[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
This is lore about Eilistraee's areas of influence in the Realms:
[quote:w3d2gfd0][b:w3d2gfd0]Major Centers of Worship[/b:w3d2gfd0]:
[b:w3d2gfd0]Miyeritar and Twisted Tower[/b:w3d2gfd0]
Before the elven Crown Wars, Eilisrraee's faith was strong in Miyeritar, and she had small numbers of faithful in Ilythiir and the other elven realms of the time. The Dark Disaster, unleashed during the Third Crown War, transformed Miyeritar into the blasted wasteland now known as the High Moor and dealt a devastating blow to the ranks of the Dark Maiden's followers. When the Ilythiiri were transformed into the drow and banished from the sunlit lands at the end of the Fourth Crown War some five hundred years later, Eilistraee's church effectively collapsed and was not reformed for millennia.
A few ancient, sacred sites of power built before the Crown Wars survive in the Misty Forest, along the borders of the High Moor, and in the Shar, scattered across the onceverdant savannah.
In the Year of Shadows Fleeting (-331 DR), the drow of the Twisted Tower fell to the armies of Cormanthyr and Rystal Wood was left in the hands of good-aligned dark elf allies. Within a century, the Tower of the Dark Moon was Eilistraee's greatest temple in the Realms. The Dark Maiden's temple fell once again to the drow beneath Cormanthyr in the Year of the Apparition (190 DR) and survives today as Shadowdale's primary redoubt where it is known by its original name, the Twisted Tower. All that remains of the Dark Maiden's legacy is the swirl of Eilistraee's moonfire that envelops any follower of Eilistraee who mentions her name within the once-sacred halls.[/quote:w3d2gfd0][/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Great! Where are you quoting this from? Is it a thread on these forums or one of the TSR products?
These sound really interesting as they hail from a time when Eilistraee was worshipped in her original form. Are there any maps or pictures of any of the sites of power of the Twisted Tower?
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote:w3d2gfd0][b:w3d2gfd0]The Promenade[/b:w3d2gfd0]
The Promenade of the Dark Maiden, also known as Eilistraee's Promenade or simply the Promenade, occupies a large ruined city located to the east and north of the lawless, subterranean city of Skullport on the third level of Undermountain deep beneath Waterdeep, the City of Splendors. Of the four major caverns that comprise the temple, one cavern contains many two- and three-story buildings that serve as living quarters for the faithful; another cavern-the Cavern of Song-serves as open space and as an amphitheatre for the hymns of the Dark Maiden's worshipers; the third cavern serves the priests as living quarters; and the fourth cavern houses guards' barracks, storehouses, armouries, and living quarters. A large side cavern leads off from the Cavern of Song to Eilistraee's Mound, site of a great statue of the Dark Maiden hewn from a jagged mound of rock. Adjoining the main temple is the Hall of Healing-once a temple of Moander that was destroyed by an unknown band of adventurers in the service of Tyr long ago- which serves as a sick nursery for the care and tending of the temple's wounded as well as those unfortunates who suffered from the dangers of the Under Halls and were rescued by the Dark Ladies. A fixed one-way teleport spot from the sixth level of Halastar's Halls delivers adventurers and an infrequent monster to the northwestern corner passage north of the Hall of Healing itself. Priests of the Promenade heal any who come to the Hall, offering the hand of friendship oft denied to those of the Shunned Races.
Many races live among the community of faithful, and their numbers are drawn from escaped slaves, former adventurers, and the Chosen of Eilistraee, as the dark elven priests are known. Prominent individuals resident in the Promenade include: Qilue Veladom, High Priest of the Promenade, Chosen of the Chosen, and Chosen of Mystra (see Seven Sisters and Heroes' Lorebook for additional details on the least-known of the Seven Sisters); Elkantar Iluim, Right Hand of the Lady; Arrikett Uruth, Hand of the Protectors; Iljrene Ahbruyn, Hand of the Protectors. The Protectors of the Song, who wield the temple's sacred singing swords, serve as the temple's guards. Their ranks include 24 drow (nine females), 9 dwarves, 27 humans (12 females), and 4 halflings.
Daily activities in the temple include food-growing, temple building chores, patrolling the temple caverns and passages, and practicing diplomacy beyond the immediate temple area.
The Chosen of Eilistraee work tirelessly to further the Lady's aims toward the peaceful coexistence of drow with other races of the Realms and to fulfill her commandments about preventing the return of Ghaunadaur.
Centuries ago, Eilistraee appeared to Qilue Veladorn and commanded the young dark elf and her playmates from part of the now-vanished drow settlement of Buiyrandyn-a small, poor gathering of drow families too small to be considered a city-to take up the singing swords provided by the Dark Maiden and destroy the Pit of Ghaunadaur. The Pit was a mile-deep shaft whose upper terminus opened into the third level of Halasters Halls. After a great battle that resulted in the destruction of an avatar of the Elder Eye as well as the most of its slithering, oozing, and creeping worshipers, the Pit was filled with rubble and the caverns around its opening collapsed. (The rubble-filled Pit of Ghaunadaur is located in the area north of Skull-port and west of Eilistraee's Promenade. The only remaining access to the rubble-filled Pit is via a long, twisting staircase capped by Eilistraee's Mound.) Qilue and the rest of the Chosen of Eilistraee then took up responsibility for patrolling the region in armed, vigilant tours mockingly referred to as promenades by other inhabitants of the area.
In the years since their great victory, the number of battles the Dark Ladies have been forced to fight-particularly with the minions of Ghaunadaur-has continued to increase. After centuries of conflict, the Chosen began construction on a temple complex where they could receive the guidance and aid of their goddess late in the Year of the Harp (1355 DR). Although construction continues, the temple was largely completed and habitable by the end of the Year of the Prince (1357 DR). Since that time, the Chosen of Eilistraee have continued to patrol the surrounding tunnels of Halaster's Halls, but with the added security of a fortified redoubt to which they can retreat when prrudent. In the spring of the Year of Maidends (1361 DR), the Dark Maidens participated in a daring raid of a slave ship berthed in Skullport that resulted in the death of the deep dragon Pharx and the destruction of the Dragon’s Horde consortium, a merchant band led by a priest of Vhaeraun. Several years later in the Year of the Banner (1368), the Promenade came under attack by Ghau-nadaur's cultists who led a full-scale assault on the temple that lasted for several months before the Elder Eye's followers were driven off.[/quote:w3d2gfd0][/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Wow. That stuff sounds like it has great detail. And the link to Undermountain, means there is a chance that worshippers of Eilistraee may have managed to make it over to Stardock (an asteroid in The Tears of Selune connected to Undermountain) at some point in the past.
I guess I should increase my efforts to get a copy of [i:w3d2gfd0]Skullport[/i:w3d2gfd0].
There is a 4e book called [i:w3d2gfd0]Halls of Undermountain[/i:w3d2gfd0]. I guess it will have any Eilistraee references removed (and will be as far into the future as [i:w3d2gfd0]Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue[/i:w3d2gfd0], but maybe there are a few useful things in it. Maybe it might be worth picking it up if it is on sale for a low price.
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote:w3d2gfd0][b:w3d2gfd0]Other Temples[/b:w3d2gfd0]
Above ground temples of Eilistraee are known to exist in the Moonwood north of the village of Quaervarr and at the northern end of the Velarwood in Harrowdale. The Mouth of Song, as the former temple is known, is located in a cavemouth beneath a treeless hill-atop which the dark elven priests and a few halfelven and elven faithful from Silverymoon dance in a great ring on moonlit nights-a day's travel north of Quaervarr. The Shadowtop Glade, as the latter temple is known, is located in a series of caves that line both sides of a steep-sided overgrown gully dominated by a grove of towering shadowtop trees. Dark elven priests of the temple armed with enchanted silver swords and moon-worshiping lycanthropes from the nearby Howling Hill join together to conduct sacred hunts to Eilistraee and Selune when the moon is full. Smaller shrines of the Dark Maiden have been spotted in the Misty Forest, the High Forest (where the Dark Ladies are led by Ysolde Veladorn, daughter of Qilue), the Forest of Shadows, the Lake Sember region, the Grey Forest, the Forest of Lethyr, the Yuirwood, and the Chondalwood. Hidden temples of Eilistraee may exist in the hearts of such forests as well. Temples of the Dark Maiden are conspicuously absent on Evermeet, the Green Isle, despite the recent rapprochement engendered by the dark elven ambassador, Lady Karsel'lyn Lylyl-Lytherraias.[/quote:w3d2gfd0][/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Moon-worshipping lycanthropes sound interesting. I take it these are good lycanthropes, to go with Selune's alignment. (I'm still trying to work out what happens to lycanthropes if they actually travel to a moon (in this case Selune). I guess they would have a clear day/night cycle to follow there.
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0]She also has worship in Ravenbluff (a temple in the city, not hidden but public to everyone who lives there).[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
I do not think I have got anything on Ravensbluff yet. Are there any sources you would recommend?
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0][quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0]Nonetheless their purpose is to make it so that the drow can finally be free to forge their own future and return to live where they belong to, and do it as a people.
In order to achieve that Eilistraeens have to build relationships with the surface races or somewhat open minded drow (for example, I can see them wanting to operate in Ssamath, even tho there isn't any source that points to that), and we know that they do so by lending their aid and protection to the ones in need, even assisting communities against danger (like the Eilistraeens living in that elven village in one of the WotSQ novels, or the Promenade under Waterdeep), showing that the drow can create, build and flourish, coexist and cooperate with other races. This means that, while having to carefully pick their battles, they do have to make themselves known on the surface and do have to act in the Underdark, by investigating, observing and waiting for opportunities to find drow who are likely to accept Eilistraee's message, or that can be saved from a cruel fate, and to know when it is best to deliver said message. Followers of the Dark Maiden have to show the drow that there is another kind of life, and that there is someone who cares about them, that they have value as individuals.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
It seems to me that Eilistraeens need to build an "underground railroad" to locate and save other drow. I'm not sure how close they could get to Menzoberranzan itself. I wonder if they might have outposts in towns close to the city.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Yes they totally need to do that, but -AFAIK- WotC never cared to put out material about this kind of efforts on the Eilistraeen's side.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
I don't know Ssmath. Is it an Underdark location? What books can I read more about it in?
Has anyone ever made any fanon material for Ssmath that includes your suggestion for an Eilistraeen presence?
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0]The "War of the Spider Queen" era section mentions that Lolth turned into a Greater Deity and began exterminating the deities she saw as her rivals (more information and a mention of Eilistraee is on page 12 of the book). I'm not sure I understand why she would do this to be honest, instead of just gain more dominance over the other drow gods[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
All the WotSQ and LP (Lady Penitent) books were written with a single goal in mind -remove the Dark Seldarine from the canonical Realms-, and they did not add any depth or fitting development to the story of the drow in the Realms. Many deities acted out of character and did very stupid or nonsensical things. Lolth not acting to subdue and dominate her children and even using them against Corellon is one of those. Heck the Silence itself is extremely stupid and was only successful because plot armor.
The whole Eilistraee crusade to slay the evil is another one. I mean, the Dark Dancer forging some all-powerful sword capable of slaying everything but Ao, losing it, then retrieving and using it to send a couple of random followers to risk their life (and most likely die) trying to kill Lolth, and all of this while not even joining them in battle?
Besides being a pretty stupid move (sending a newly converted drow to kill a goddess, a paranoid one with tons of contingencies and capable of reading mind. And expecting her to do this in a... swordfight??), 'slay the evil' to solve stuff is not Eilistraee at all. She should have tried to establish a presence in drow cities (like Vhaerunite did), and use the unstable situation and state of unhappiness and desire for a better life to open their eyes about the reality of their situations and deliver her message. Helping Maerymydra against the Fire Giants that razed it would have been a very fitting and cool development, for example. Killing Lolth is not magically going to remove millennia of brainwashing and is only going to cause a bloodbath due to all the chaos and infight that it would bring (not to mention other races taking action and trying to destroy drow presence in the underdark, as it would have happened for Menzo if lolth hadn't come back at the last moment to stop it).
That said, is the mention of Eilistraee simply about her defeat or does it give other kind of info?[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
They do say that deities are supposed to work in mysterious ways. Maybe Eilistraee's "mistakes" were some sort of plan to trick Lolth into doing something that would free some of the drow.
Maybe they can explain it better later. But, to be honest, this stuff sounds like it is beyond the 3rd Edition Era, so it counts as "a possible future" to me.
<snip>
[quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0][quote="Irennan":w3d2gfd0]Now adding the Eilistraee/Vhaeraun faction, expanding and try to give at least [i:w3d2gfd0]some[/i:w3d2gfd0] little sense to the events in LP (which make very little, especially in relation to what Eilistraee's goal is), adding plot hooks and connecting the Underdark to the Feydark, would have been something actually new and refreshing. But no, WotC even refused to publish it as DDI content, despite the popularity of the two deities, despite already owning the finished lore, and despite the fact that at the time DDI content had shrunk a lot, leaving large room for this to be published.
Not to mention that the added content would have open so many plotlines about Eilistraeens and Vhaerunites trying to rebuild in this new world, so many angles about the drow to explore, all which is lost (in the published setting, ofc).[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "LP" so can't quite understand this part of what you wrote. But I did read the posts in this thread and saw what you and Eric were talking about. I think that is regrettable, but what is done is done.
I would rather talk about what [i:w3d2gfd0]did[/i:w3d2gfd0] make it into the book and what may parts of this book may be things that were not in the old Menzoberranzan boxed set.
There are 46 pages in the chapter about Drow Factions, 21 pages in the chapter about the City of Spiders and 12 pages in the chapter about The Northdark. I'm guessing that some of that is duplicated from what was there before, but there is a chance that some of it is new.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Well i've heard (read, actually) from people that own the book that the only real new info are about the events that happened in the later ears (WotSQ/Spellplague) and that most of the info about places/houses is rehashed lore. What I mean is that the lore about X house is enemy to Y in XXXX year is not really useful for world building (anyone can easily make up that kind of stuff) and that a couple useful paragraphs are not really worth a purchase. However you can't completely blame them, a book covering an already covered area is not going to contain that much new lore. Much of the old lore -like history, geography, and some prominent NPCs- is still going to be the same. What I blame them for is refusing to add some of the actually new lore.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Sure. People can make that stuff up, but we can talk about it, if there is any stuff you or anyone else is interested in.
Back when the 3rd Edition [i:w3d2gfd0]Dragonlance Campaign Setting[/i:w3d2gfd0] came out, I was not sure I wanted to buy 3rd Edition and actually read the book in a book store and took notes!
[quote="Bhaern Quel":w3d2gfd0][quote="Dostrealt":w3d2gfd0]I'm not quite sure what you mean by "LP" so can't quite understand this part of what you wrote. [/quote:w3d2gfd0]
LP refers to the novel/book series Lady Penitent, the trilogy Forgotten Realms series by Lisa Smedman that killed all the other Drow deities. Why she got the job I do not understand, however she got the job.[/quote:w3d2gfd0]
Thanks for this. I've got plenty of other drow/Underdark novels to read, so I don't think I'll be reading the Lady Penitent novels anything soon.