Are drow underpowered?

[Joseph Silver]

The +2 level adjustment supposedly balances the drow's innate abilities like spell resistance, ability score bonuses, and spell-like abilities.

However, it seems to me that this level adjustment works more like a deterrent to playing as a drow instead of being a real balancing factor.

The drow's spell resistance works well against spellcasters, but most creatures on Abeir-Toril can't even cast spells. A level 5 human fighter is a match for a level 5 troll, but a level 3 drow (ECL 5) will get pwned by the troll.

The bonuses to intelligence and charisma are nice, but because of the drow level adjustment, humans make for superior spellcasters.

Quite frankly, I feel that drow are incredibly underpowered except when used as NPCs. NPCs do not really suffer from the level adjustment because the DM decides what level the drow NPC starts at without worrying about leveling him up.

So, how would you make the drow better?

[Ceistant]

Yeah I ran into this hard core when I started my second run at the NWN2 Core Campaign. As a Drow Fighter it was hard going. I haven't continued with it yet, but from what I'm seeing (at least in the lower levels) its not a balanced trade off. The Abilities, in my mind, don't merit the penalty. The Drow don't see anymore potent as the Planetouched do.

I could see it if the Drow had all the powers and abilities as they were first writen for AD&D First Edition Rules, with ridiculously high magic resistance and a slew special abilities. And even more so if by that same standard they were Lolthian drow encountered in the Underdark, carrying around +3 and greater Adamantium weapons and armor and having access to their full powers.

But as a Player Character, not in the Underdark, and most assuredly on the surface with normal gear, and most likely living Non-Lolthian societies... they wouldn't be much, if anymore powerful than any other Sub-race of Elf.

[Bhaern Quel]

The LA clearly is a problem, 3.5 had little play testing (based on what I have read about it) that most likely did not play test Drow inreacting with other races at Level 1 (in either the underdark or on the surface).

The sleep poison is a factor of LA, but they donot last long and resupply can be a problem (espcially on the surface). In short I believe the LA is priced too high, but NWN will be coded as default to the core rules.

[Shir'le E. Illios]

[quote="Joseph Silver":2lsyxo3w]However, it seems to me that this level adjustment works more like a deterrent to playing as a drow instead of being a real balancing factor.[/quote:2lsyxo3w]
That actually seems a good thing to me. That means that those playing drow are more likely to be serious about playing a drow instead of doing it just because of the bonuses.

That said; when playing my drow bard in the NWN2 OC I’ve found the following in regards to ECL.

The first few levels tend to be fairly tough as you die a lot quicker than most other characters and your abilities don’t really help that much. I’m sure I’ve found some benefit of the charisma and int boost, but in the end they’re both only +1 above what they’d otherwise be. And the spell-like abilities I hardly used much at all; light is never needed, see invisible never seemed needed either and darkness I only used once or twice in the beginning (since using it would also cause problems for the rest of your party). Spell resistance doesn’t come in play at all, but the fewer hitpoints in particular and the lower class level as well tend to hurt a fair bit.

But around level 9 I think it was I no longer felt behind. I still didn’t use my spell-like abilities, but spell resistance really started to kick in. Quite often I would get this satisfying ‘ting’ sound as a spell bounced off my spell resistance. Once even when fighting the end boss for act 1. Made me feel “nyah nyah, I’m a drow and you can’t touch me with your spells!”

Of course, I was playing a bard and one of my stock tactics was to start every combat with singing haven song, which makes it so enemies can’t attack you (until you attack them; basically like the sanctuary spell). That would usually mean that the fighters in the party would “get agro” as it’s called and the enemies tended not to focus so much on me while I buffed and debuffed. As such having fewer hitpoints stopped being much of a problem.

In short, while at the start it does make the game harder at some point the drawbacks stop being much of an issue and the benefits start to count more strongly.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[Alak Xiltyn]

I've always felt (even in pnp) that the Drow got punished for being popular.

I've never complained about the adjustment in pnp because I make good use of all of my spell-like abilities and had one DM go out of his way to get around my Spell resistance (he quit doing that when half the group was suddenly getting nat 20s every other roll) but it's just too steep in NWN2, the Spell like abilities are useless which puts a drow on par with the Planetouched. But hey, it's only two levels, it sucks but I can live with that, the Deep Gnomes however, got screwed and reguardless of how cool I think they are, I ain't touching them.

[Rooky]

I rarely played dark elves just for that reason. For a short while I did play Drow I tried out amost every class.

Sorceror, Rouge, and Cleric I found being best for them, Rouges esspecially.
I have one remaining question since we're mentioning NWN. How many CD's are there? One or three?

[Shir'le E. Illios]

[quote="Rooky":1etxipbv]I have one remaining question since we're mentioning NWN. How many CD's are there? One or three?[/quote:1etxipbv]
One DVD. Not sure how many CDs the CD version is (as I think they don't sell that one over here).


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[Argoth]

Well pnp makes it more mobile. I always use almost every ability of my drow. I always play the same character. I like it. My bard is quite fun to play with and that's what I want to use in NWN2. Still, when I got to lvl 13 in pnp (and another drow fighter in the party) we were the core magic resistant force. Every time a fire ball went screaming through the air, we were already there. The bard is a great buffer. And quite a good fighter with the good feats. I had a critic range on my two short swords of 15-20 at lvl 13.

[Mousestalker]

My very first character in NWN 2 Official campaign was a drow rogue. I died a fair amount early on, but I quickly learned to use my dwarf friend as a meatshield.

I did not die at all after Chapter One, so I suspect my mortality problem was more a function of acclimating myself to a new system than to race or class choice. In Chapter 3, unless I was fighting a major villain, I suffered little significant damage.

However, I did do every available side quest. Not so much for the XP, but more to see the content. My companions were all level 20 before the big fight. I closed the gap to the cap during the last mission. So at the last fight, we were all level 20.

I suspect that the rules will be more of a difference in PnP where Xp does not flow as rapidly and characters spend more time leveling up.

[Unen_Stealthfoot]

[color=indigo:26bia3to]Pnp is GREAT! I find that when rping on the computer, whenever you roll a 1 to hit, it just always misses, but in pnp somthing interesting always happens (even if it is bad). E.g.that spidermonk guy tried to wrap a silk rope around a fleeing soldier, but instead rolled a 1 and wrapped the rope around our thief, which was pretty bad, but we still got the soldier, as the streched out rope clotheslined the guy. You had to be there, I guess, but it was pretty funny.[/color:26bia3to]

[Argoth]

That's still nothing. A team. An elf ranger, a drow bard and a little fellow thief. The elf should have been our fighter, but instead, he rolled always 1 on the first round, so all he did, is give the bad guy a shave... Or drop his sword while pulling it out.

[Kirintha the Fair]

theirs some SUPER OPTIONAL rules in Unearthed arcana, for reducing ECL.

that you can use if it becomes an annoyance in a campaign yoru running...

using them you'd be totally free of your Drows ECL at 9th level.

[Argoth]

Could You give some examples?

[Vendrin]

I'd rather play a drow without the special abilities and the ecl than a drow with them.

[Argoth]

Why? That wouldn't give any variaty or spice to Your character. It would be the same as in the Temple of Elemental Evil. There is one drow picture for a character, but doesn't mean anything.