Well Ed clearly is looking more favorable on males and other races as far as Eilistraee is concerned.
Two more books to go to get a better sense of what might become new canon.
Sacrifice of the Widow
Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel
-
Iltzafein Elaug'dan
- Maid
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:20 pm
Wow, did everyone find the book that bad? Either I'm too blind to see the flaws or too laid back to even give much notice.
I don't know about anyone else, but the I was worried for a moment that Qilue and Q'arlynd were very much screwed near the end. The idea though that Eilistraee and her followers will now have to possibly battle Vhaeraun's essence as well as Lloth could add up for an interesting plot, providing deities do not start dying left, right, and center, with only one deity and their influence left.
Thus I'd say the book more or less met my needs and was enjoyable (Q'arlynd I think provided some decent comic relief) even though Vhaeruan's death was included to further the plot.
I don't know about anyone else, but the I was worried for a moment that Qilue and Q'arlynd were very much screwed near the end. The idea though that Eilistraee and her followers will now have to possibly battle Vhaeraun's essence as well as Lloth could add up for an interesting plot, providing deities do not start dying left, right, and center, with only one deity and their influence left.
Thus I'd say the book more or less met my needs and was enjoyable (Q'arlynd I think provided some decent comic relief) even though Vhaeruan's death was included to further the plot.
-
Shir'le E. Illios
- High Priestess
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Eilistraee.com
- Contact:
[quote="Iltzafein Elaug'dan":22t1evbk]Wow, did everyone find the book that bad? Either I'm too blind to see the flaws or too laid back to even give much notice.[/quote:22t1evbk]
While I can’t speak for anyone else, for me it’s not so much that I found the book bad. Quite the contrary, I found it quite enjoyable.
It’s more that I’m incredibly, incredibly worried for the future. Miss Smedman is in a position to kill off Eilistraee and it has been stated that it’ll either be Eilistraee of Lolth who survives in the end (though there are a few caveats with that).
If Eilistraee dies (the way it seems some other deities already have both in this book and in past FR material) then that kind of leaves us (as the Chosen of Eilistraee) stranded. And I’m having a hard time believing that they’ll kill off their most popular drow deity (namely Lolth)[sup:22t1evbk]*[/sup:22t1evbk]. And even if Eilistraee survives she might be changed enough that I don’t like her as a deity anymore (for instance if she ceases to be Good-aligned); I like Eilistraee for what she is now and while there is certainly room for change that also brings the risk of changing things I’d want to remain the same.
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).
While I can’t speak for anyone else, for me it’s not so much that I found the book bad. Quite the contrary, I found it quite enjoyable.
It’s more that I’m incredibly, incredibly worried for the future. Miss Smedman is in a position to kill off Eilistraee and it has been stated that it’ll either be Eilistraee of Lolth who survives in the end (though there are a few caveats with that).
If Eilistraee dies (the way it seems some other deities already have both in this book and in past FR material) then that kind of leaves us (as the Chosen of Eilistraee) stranded. And I’m having a hard time believing that they’ll kill off their most popular drow deity (namely Lolth)[sup:22t1evbk]*[/sup:22t1evbk]. And even if Eilistraee survives she might be changed enough that I don’t like her as a deity anymore (for instance if she ceases to be Good-aligned); I like Eilistraee for what she is now and while there is certainly room for change that also brings the risk of changing things I’d want to remain the same.
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
-
Silent Rebel
- Maid
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:06 am
[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":3ov0cuwp][quote="Iltzafein Elaug'dan":3ov0cuwp]Wow, did everyone find the book that bad? Either I'm too blind to see the flaws or too laid back to even give much notice.[/quote:3ov0cuwp]
While I can’t speak for anyone else, for me it’s not so much that I found the book bad. Quite the contrary, I found it quite enjoyable.
It’s more that I’m incredibly, incredibly worried for the future. Miss Smedman is in a position to kill off Eilistraee and it has been stated that it’ll either be Eilistraee of Lolth who survives in the end (though there are a few caveats with that).
If Eilistraee dies (the way it seems some other deities already have both in this book and in past FR material) then that kind of leaves us (as the Chosen of Eilistraee) stranded. And I’m having a hard time believing that they’ll kill off their most popular drow deity (namely Lolth)[sup:3ov0cuwp]*[/sup:3ov0cuwp]. And even if Eilistraee survives she might be changed enough that I don’t like her as a deity anymore (for instance if she ceases to be Good-aligned); I like Eilistraee for what she is now and while there is certainly room for change that also brings the risk of changing things I’d want to remain the same.
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).[/quote:3ov0cuwp]
[color=brown:3ov0cuwp]:..:..:..:..:[/color:3ov0cuwp]
[color=blue:3ov0cuwp]I agree to everything you just wrote...
So wait... If both Vhaerun and Eilistraee is gone...
Hell, drow males will have a hard time...[/color:3ov0cuwp]
[color=brown:3ov0cuwp]:..:..:..:..:[/color:3ov0cuwp]
While I can’t speak for anyone else, for me it’s not so much that I found the book bad. Quite the contrary, I found it quite enjoyable.
It’s more that I’m incredibly, incredibly worried for the future. Miss Smedman is in a position to kill off Eilistraee and it has been stated that it’ll either be Eilistraee of Lolth who survives in the end (though there are a few caveats with that).
If Eilistraee dies (the way it seems some other deities already have both in this book and in past FR material) then that kind of leaves us (as the Chosen of Eilistraee) stranded. And I’m having a hard time believing that they’ll kill off their most popular drow deity (namely Lolth)[sup:3ov0cuwp]*[/sup:3ov0cuwp]. And even if Eilistraee survives she might be changed enough that I don’t like her as a deity anymore (for instance if she ceases to be Good-aligned); I like Eilistraee for what she is now and while there is certainly room for change that also brings the risk of changing things I’d want to remain the same.
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).[/quote:3ov0cuwp]
[color=brown:3ov0cuwp]:..:..:..:..:[/color:3ov0cuwp]
[color=blue:3ov0cuwp]I agree to everything you just wrote...
So wait... If both Vhaerun and Eilistraee is gone...
Hell, drow males will have a hard time...[/color:3ov0cuwp]
[color=brown:3ov0cuwp]:..:..:..:..:[/color:3ov0cuwp]
..Out of darkness, into light, hopeful spirit, the moon shine bright..
..No more fear, the nightmare ends fast, sleep only safe, have peace at last..
..Beyond the hate, beneath the stars course, follow me to harmony, an end to all wars..
..No more fear, the nightmare ends fast, sleep only safe, have peace at last..
..Beyond the hate, beneath the stars course, follow me to harmony, an end to all wars..
-
Kirintha the Fair
- Regular
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:15 pm
Interesting question... what about vhaurens extraplanar servants.
what do you think happeneed to most of them.
even with eilistraee tainted somewhat with vhaurens darkness...at least at first she might have no use for them but cannon fodder, and they KNOW this I think.
on the other hand... im not sure what choice some of them might have... since lloth might kill one or two of them boredly, as a game.
what do you think happeneed to most of them.
even with eilistraee tainted somewhat with vhaurens darkness...at least at first she might have no use for them but cannon fodder, and they KNOW this I think.
on the other hand... im not sure what choice some of them might have... since lloth might kill one or two of them boredly, as a game.
With one thing certain, mainly norrowing the drow pantheon, it'll be a very hard time and it will couse confusion (lots of it) among the non-lolthians. There were just to many followers of different deities. And now what? In my opinion the drow are the most powerfull race of Faerun, with minuses in their number, limited space to dwell and the imposibility to reach the surface in a way, that would threaten any other race (maybe accept for the dwarrows). The drow have enough going on by themselves. Even the drow deserve a place for those different than lolthian standards.
[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":wspz4dx0]
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).[/quote:wspz4dx0]
I would take you up on that offer. I haven't found any good drow-centric forums to discuss the book yet either. Can I do that here with you on yours?
I mostly play evil drow agents of Vhaeraun, though I as a player and DM know about and love all the drow gods, even Lolth. I have played good drow or half-drow as well a few times, and DM'd for good drow many times. I got the feeling that people who mostly play good drow are more likely to enjoy this book. I'm not sure many fans of the evil drow gods will though. For fans of the Revenancer, well, nothing has changed. Her followers don't appear. Though at least in this book their goddess and church get [i:wspz4dx0]mentioned[/i:wspz4dx0]-- in one whole paragraph of staid exposition explaining that something happened in Maerimydra (the events from that adventure sourcebook, City of the Spider Queen).
I think some fans of the spiderb-- of the Spider Queen might enjoy this book, others won't. Hard to say with that chaotic lot.
Fans of Selvatarm are going to have a love-hate relationship with the book. He doesn't get much 'screen time' in this one, less than i the War of the Spider Queen books, but his followers and champions get a big role as villains. (And any time your favourite guys get cast in a FR novel as 'the villains' you KNOW it will end badly for them, so it's a disappointment, but an expected one). She did a pretty good job on them. They were cool, and pretty much what they should be, and I think most fans of Selvatarm will be pleased at their portrayal. That is, if they're fans of the berserker side of his church. Some priests of Selvatarm are known for cunning and patience, preferring his 'Spider that Waits' aspect, and that side of the church is not featured in this one. Just the scary raw-power enforcers and shouting berserker style Selvagartlin.
Ghaunadaur doesn't really get any mention at all, except being mentioned in passing as having been defeated by Quile and her companions long ago before they sealed his pit and built the Promenade temple over it -- the same thing they say every time they write about Quile Veladorn. The Elder Ooze got no more mention than that, and this book, as with the previous 6 War of the Spider Queen books, makes it appear as if the cult of Ghaunadar simply doesn't exist, and he has no worshippers. One who is a fan of playing Slimelords might find this relieving, however, as you know nothing bad is going to happen to your god or his church -- yet. And that's no change from the official material in the past 10 years, so they'll be used to it, as most players of 'evil drow that don't worship Lolth' are.
I was curious how your children of the Dark Maiden might feel about the book. I did expect some mixed reactions; general enjoyment, but a few details they didn't like perhaps, or certain things like complaints about forced endings, which is common in the FR novels anyway*.
[quote:wspz4dx0]*My favourite Forced Ending to Hate is the ending of Daughter of the Drow. I'd rate that book,
Overall: 4/5
Characters: 5/5
Ending: 1/5 and that is being KIND as the Dark Maiden asks us to be
[/quote:wspz4dx0]
What I really wish they'd done, if they wanted to delve into a civil war in the drow pantheon, is done it slowly over a few years and put out some sourcebooks and adventure books to let the players have material to, you know, play such things out. With a bunch of novels as well, like a couple trilogies about each faith and it's part iin the war, before the final act occurs. Instead of just trying to cram such a huge event into three quick trilogies focused on just a handful of drow, and not even involving half of the pantheon....
and only having all of one adventure book/sourcebook about it.
Anyway, I don't want to discuss it too much here, as it seems a lot of people haven't finished or begun reading it (those who are going to, and I almost wish I HADN'T heh)
Where would be the best place for me to post my views on the events? Here, or in the thread about the book in the Theology Forum, where there is more in depth discussion and spoilers seem okay.
-Sancha of House Vrinn
Black Market Merchant and Dark Dagger Agent
Change is good, as long as it doesn’t involving taking away the things I like.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
* It would’ve been interesting to see the views on events from players who prefer Lolth as a deity (or any of the other evil drow deities for that matter). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a drow-centric forum yet where the book is discussed (most seem to be as good as abandoned).[/quote:wspz4dx0]
I would take you up on that offer. I haven't found any good drow-centric forums to discuss the book yet either. Can I do that here with you on yours?
I mostly play evil drow agents of Vhaeraun, though I as a player and DM know about and love all the drow gods, even Lolth. I have played good drow or half-drow as well a few times, and DM'd for good drow many times. I got the feeling that people who mostly play good drow are more likely to enjoy this book. I'm not sure many fans of the evil drow gods will though. For fans of the Revenancer, well, nothing has changed. Her followers don't appear. Though at least in this book their goddess and church get [i:wspz4dx0]mentioned[/i:wspz4dx0]-- in one whole paragraph of staid exposition explaining that something happened in Maerimydra (the events from that adventure sourcebook, City of the Spider Queen).
I think some fans of the spiderb-- of the Spider Queen might enjoy this book, others won't. Hard to say with that chaotic lot.
Fans of Selvatarm are going to have a love-hate relationship with the book. He doesn't get much 'screen time' in this one, less than i the War of the Spider Queen books, but his followers and champions get a big role as villains. (And any time your favourite guys get cast in a FR novel as 'the villains' you KNOW it will end badly for them, so it's a disappointment, but an expected one). She did a pretty good job on them. They were cool, and pretty much what they should be, and I think most fans of Selvatarm will be pleased at their portrayal. That is, if they're fans of the berserker side of his church. Some priests of Selvatarm are known for cunning and patience, preferring his 'Spider that Waits' aspect, and that side of the church is not featured in this one. Just the scary raw-power enforcers and shouting berserker style Selvagartlin.
Ghaunadaur doesn't really get any mention at all, except being mentioned in passing as having been defeated by Quile and her companions long ago before they sealed his pit and built the Promenade temple over it -- the same thing they say every time they write about Quile Veladorn. The Elder Ooze got no more mention than that, and this book, as with the previous 6 War of the Spider Queen books, makes it appear as if the cult of Ghaunadar simply doesn't exist, and he has no worshippers. One who is a fan of playing Slimelords might find this relieving, however, as you know nothing bad is going to happen to your god or his church -- yet. And that's no change from the official material in the past 10 years, so they'll be used to it, as most players of 'evil drow that don't worship Lolth' are.
I was curious how your children of the Dark Maiden might feel about the book. I did expect some mixed reactions; general enjoyment, but a few details they didn't like perhaps, or certain things like complaints about forced endings, which is common in the FR novels anyway*.
[quote:wspz4dx0]*My favourite Forced Ending to Hate is the ending of Daughter of the Drow. I'd rate that book,
Overall: 4/5
Characters: 5/5
Ending: 1/5 and that is being KIND as the Dark Maiden asks us to be
[/quote:wspz4dx0]
What I really wish they'd done, if they wanted to delve into a civil war in the drow pantheon, is done it slowly over a few years and put out some sourcebooks and adventure books to let the players have material to, you know, play such things out. With a bunch of novels as well, like a couple trilogies about each faith and it's part iin the war, before the final act occurs. Instead of just trying to cram such a huge event into three quick trilogies focused on just a handful of drow, and not even involving half of the pantheon....
and only having all of one adventure book/sourcebook about it.
Anyway, I don't want to discuss it too much here, as it seems a lot of people haven't finished or begun reading it (those who are going to, and I almost wish I HADN'T heh)
Where would be the best place for me to post my views on the events? Here, or in the thread about the book in the Theology Forum, where there is more in depth discussion and spoilers seem okay.
-Sancha of House Vrinn
Black Market Merchant and Dark Dagger Agent
-
Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2104
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
[quote="Sancha":kviv0uzu]
Anyway, I don't want to discuss it too much here, as it seems a lot of people haven't finished or begun reading it (those who are going to, and I almost wish I HADN'T heh)
Where would be the best place for me to post my views on the events? Here, or in the thread about the book in the Theology Forum, where there is more in depth discussion and spoilers seem okay.[/quote:kviv0uzu]
Well if you convert, members forum could become a place to discuss. *wink*
Barring conversion, just a thread that indicates "Spoileries" is a good place to discuss books (any book) that a person has not read is warned that if they read the thread they will know parts of the book, before reading it. It becomes their fault if they read a thread as they clearly are warned in advance that details of the book will be revealed.
BTW Welcome to the Chosen, may you find a home here of a kind.
Anyway, I don't want to discuss it too much here, as it seems a lot of people haven't finished or begun reading it (those who are going to, and I almost wish I HADN'T heh)
Where would be the best place for me to post my views on the events? Here, or in the thread about the book in the Theology Forum, where there is more in depth discussion and spoilers seem okay.[/quote:kviv0uzu]
Well if you convert, members forum could become a place to discuss. *wink*
Barring conversion, just a thread that indicates "Spoileries" is a good place to discuss books (any book) that a person has not read is warned that if they read the thread they will know parts of the book, before reading it. It becomes their fault if they read a thread as they clearly are warned in advance that details of the book will be revealed.
BTW Welcome to the Chosen, may you find a home here of a kind.
-
Shir'le E. Illios
- High Priestess
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Eilistraee.com
- Contact:
[quote="Sancha":2xr3pw9y]Where would be the best place for me to post my views on the events? Here, or in the thread about the book in the Theology Forum, where there is more in depth discussion and spoilers seem okay.[/quote:2xr3pw9y]
As Bhaern said any thread with a good spoiler warning will do, though since we’ve already got a thread with spoiler-heavy discussions in the Theology forum I think that’s probably the best place to do so.
Of course if there’s an aspect of the discussion that you feel isn’t covered yet and warrants its own thread then feel free to start a new thread on that (just don’t flood the board with threads as that’ll just force me to make a book discussion forum ).
And welcome to our little corned of the web; feel free to shed your clothes and dance in the moonlight. And may you find a home of sorts here.
[quote="Bhaern Quel":2xr3pw9y]BTW Welcome to the Chosen, may you find a home here of a kind.[/quote:2xr3pw9y]
Bah, stealing my greeting now, are we?
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
As Bhaern said any thread with a good spoiler warning will do, though since we’ve already got a thread with spoiler-heavy discussions in the Theology forum I think that’s probably the best place to do so.
Of course if there’s an aspect of the discussion that you feel isn’t covered yet and warrants its own thread then feel free to start a new thread on that (just don’t flood the board with threads as that’ll just force me to make a book discussion forum
).And welcome to our little corned of the web; feel free to shed your clothes and dance in the moonlight.
And may you find a home of sorts here.[quote="Bhaern Quel":2xr3pw9y]BTW Welcome to the Chosen, may you find a home here of a kind.[/quote:2xr3pw9y]
Bah, stealing my greeting now, are we?
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
Someone had to steal something, and now I won't have to. Appreciated.
And thank you for the welcome, ladies.
*Sancha slides out of her robes and boots, and wraps them up in her cloak. She hesitates a moment before also leaving her bow, quiver and swords behind as well. Her body is lithe yet muscular, and heavily tattooed from her thighs up to her collarbones, and while she seems embarassed to dance, disrobing doesn't seem to shame her at all.*
I'm afraid the only dance I am any good at is the Watch and Take. *She smirks slightly*. I've been to a few royal balls, but I really can't dance well enough to dance [i:2x0mtt4c]here[/i:2x0mtt4c]. You'll forgive me if I just watch, I hope.
Tonight I will come by the temple so we can engage in some Theological debate, yes?
*Sancha bows gracefully, and glides out of the room to go look around and explore. And maybe watch some dancing...*
And thank you for the welcome, ladies.
*Sancha slides out of her robes and boots, and wraps them up in her cloak. She hesitates a moment before also leaving her bow, quiver and swords behind as well. Her body is lithe yet muscular, and heavily tattooed from her thighs up to her collarbones, and while she seems embarassed to dance, disrobing doesn't seem to shame her at all.*
I'm afraid the only dance I am any good at is the Watch and Take. *She smirks slightly*. I've been to a few royal balls, but I really can't dance well enough to dance [i:2x0mtt4c]here[/i:2x0mtt4c]. You'll forgive me if I just watch, I hope.
Tonight I will come by the temple so we can engage in some Theological debate, yes?
*Sancha bows gracefully, and glides out of the room to go look around and explore. And maybe watch some dancing...*
Dancing here is a religious ceremony, a rite, but one that does need little skill in dancing itself. More desired are just hearing the music of the Lady, her singing, and just be spontanous enough to go along with Her. The rest will occur almost all by itself.
And I wasn't peeking...[/size:30kis7jz]
And I wasn't peeking...[/size:30kis7jz]
