[quote="Shae":23bfskpv]Sure, it wasn't my theory. But I suppose glory/honor were also the wrong labels for it. Whoever came up with the theory I mentioned really just had an idea of Eilistraee as a goddess of bards and artists, someone like Milil, Deneir or Oghma, because her favored class is bard, she apparently loves reading, and she has specific artistic things in her portfolio like song and dance. I labelled this theory of her, perhaps mistakenly, as 'glory' because that's what the gods who have this kind of purview would seem to contribute to, since they embody the crowning pinnacles of a civilization, its knowledge and arts. But perhaps I should have said rather, that Eilistraee by this old theory actually fell under the category of gods of "art and knowledge," and the core idea was apparently Eilistraee as a "teacher." A bard, a goddess of imagination, who advocates "freedom of information" and thrives off making others feel entertained and bringing them feelings of joy, amazement, curiosity or a kind of child-like wonder. Not an entity that would or could embody any great things of herself, but who could cause/create things or opportunities for people by way of a very small flash or spark, an eye-opener, some incident, by which an individual might feel moved in some way---fascinated, charmed, whatever---into beginning an artistic or intellectual journey of self discovery, to find new ideas, or to follow their dreams or their heart and perhaps by way of that in the best scenario, eventually "wake up" to be who they truly are, changed by what they learn about themselves and the world around them.
If that's the case then as I said she would protect love in as it's a learning experience for her drow, an inspiration for them etc. but not be necessarily love herself, in that vein.
There certainly were various issues with the theory in general, like possible crossover with Vhaeraun like you suggest resulting in Masked Lady stuff, unless maybe she was extremely passive. And it did get throughly deconstructed for that. Another problem was that it also brought up the possibility if Eilistraee's like this she might have a side where she's kind of too removed or intellectual/ivory-tower, aka cold. You know the type; the scientist, the librarian, the absent-minded professor, etc. al. So, as I mentioned, I was so-so on it. Still, I thought there were parts of the theory that had a bit of merit as regards this discussion, which is---she may or may not actually be anything like this, but this idea of her among others doesn't posit her as being in the vein of a goddess like Sune, and that at least seems to be a common thread in a lot of the ideas of what sort of goddess she is and what things fall under her purview and to what extent, like love. Usually what we get regarding her is generally ideas like the one I mentioned, where she seems to have gotten typecast variously as more like a inspiration, family, harmony, mercy or wisdom goddess or something of that nature. That was my only real intention in bringing it up at all, albeit clumsily, given the topic of this thread.[/quote:23bfskpv]
Oh, [i:23bfskpv]this[/i:23bfskpv] changes everything, and I find myself in agreement with it, even if not fully. Eilistraee is a goddess of art, of song and dance, she revels in those, she is at her happiest looking at -among the other things- artists/bards at work, and spreading knowledge of song, music and art is among her teachings (just like spreading joy, sense of wonder and happiness).
In Demihuman Deities, while not explictly said, it is heavily implied that Eilistreaee is a goddess of freedom of expression and choice, of acceptance, working to preserve and make the beauty in the world flourish. So it is just natural that she would encourage the drow to chase their dreams, follow their hearts, discover themselves, basically embrace life. The way she -personally- does that is, per Ed Greenwood, (when her followers don't directly intervene) sending them visions, emotions, making her presence/love felt, reaching to their hearts and striking deep chords in them, related to what they deep inside need and wish for. The drow usually don't realize that when they receive such ''gifts'' by Eilistraee, but those [i:23bfskpv]can[/i:23bfskpv] change their view of the world and may lead them to seek a different life when confronted with the opportunity to do so. These may easily be the eye-opening events that you're talking about and, once free of the eternal conflict that Lolth imposes them, the drow will express their creative potential at fullest (which under Lolth's thumb is not possible at all, since stagnation is the result of her obsessive control. There's a discussion here
http://eilistraee.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 110#p50331). In this sense, Eilistraee -as a goddess that values freedom of expression so much- is an ''enabler'' of what wonderful creations mortal drow minds may come to craft.
On the teacher aspect, IMO it is a given, since Eilistraee's a mother goddess and her goal is to make her children flourish, in all senses (so artistic/cultural one included). She has to be a teacher, both of basic aspects of life (even as trivial as finding food) and of the more sophisticated ones, to do that.
However, I disagree on the ''scholar''/scientist apect. She's more of an artist than that, and she's not cold, her character is nothing like that. If you want to be the one that opens your people eyes and shows them a different life, if you want to spread joy in the world and protect and aid those in need (like Eilistraee does), there is no way you can be cold. Besides, the existence of the absent minded professor stereotype doesn't mean that scholars have to be like that.
[quote:23bfskpv]
Although if I remember correctly according to FR wiki Hanani Celanil names Eilistraee specifically in her list of allies, and Hanani's portfolio includes lovers. Oddly, Hanani isn't singled out so explicitly in turn in Eilistraee's write-up, except as so far as she's part of the Seldarine in general. Maybe no one felt the need to include it, or it's a deliberate oversight which might be significant, who knows. I don't recall reading what anyone thought Eilistraee's relationship to Hanani is which might shed some insight on where the former's purview would run with that. Before we turn Eilistraee herself into a goddess or protector for drow lovers, we might first look at what relationship she has to the goddess of elven lovers. [/quote:23bfskpv]
Eilistraee's relationship with all the Seldarine is strained (Demihuman Deities). They are allies, but it is some kind of cold alliance, so her relationship with Hanali doesn't really matter in this regard IMO (and then , just look at Sune/Hanali being rivals, AFAIK). However, because of her nature and reasons already stated in this thread, Eilistraee can very well be a protectress of drow lovers (but that would not be her primary role, nor that was my thought when I started this thread, but a consequence of her favoring lovers, of her role and of what she does).
[quote:23bfskpv]
As for LP, I think a number of the ways the characters acted in general through the books bothered me more then the actual ending, although that was bad too (the skin color change especially irritated me for the unfortunate implications.)
And yes, I'm also glad Eilistraee is back, but obviously because it is human to be easily dissatisfied, I hope that Greenwood would remove some of the things that caused such controversy last time round. It's fine to have a bias, a lot of the FR deities do, but not to that extent. Well, I don't mean to say he intended that in theory, but regardless of intentions it just ended up not working when taking together all accounts.
I also hope he can make what is and is not her purview a bit more clear, admittedly for petulant wishfully silly reasons like fanart and such, because I realize it's impossible to get it that fast. We probably can't expect any of that for possibly years more for all I know, at the rate the company is moving with the products.[/quote:23bfskpv]
I had problems with both the behaviour of the characters and the ending (because the ending really either is Eilistraee behaving like a fool or she demolishing everything she has ever stood for, leaving her people behind, betraying her ideals). If with bias you mean her priestesses' sexism in the novels, Ed has already clarified on that in 2006. The only difference between genders should be in priesthood, and that is only because of Eilistraee's nature as a mother-goddess, making it impossible to feel ''her divine dance'' as anything but a female. It's just who Eilistraee is.
Outside of it, both females/males have the same duties (experts, workers, guards and so on) and canon sources (writeups on the goddess, SKR's article about drow life and so on) say that males should expect a fairly gender equal treatment. Ed himself said that this issue can be easily overstated and that at the end, priestesses of Eilistraee are happy to welcome and work with [i:23bfskpv]any[/i:23bfskpv] individual willing to join them. Eilistraee herself listens and makes her presence felt (through moonfire, for example) to males that dance for her, just like to females. Seriously, the novels really went too far with the sexism, especially when it was said that Ryld felt like there was no place for him among the Eilistraeens, while Eilistraee would welcome [i:23bfskpv]all[/i:23bfskpv] the drow in her embrace and her clergy is generally happy to do the same. It's almost like they were trying to make the priestesses unlikeable...
I'm confident that we will get more info about Eilistraee soon (if you consider 1 year to be soon), we should look at Ed's next novel for that (not Spellstorm, the following one, in 2016). About 2 months ago, I had an e-mail exchange with him, and he told me that he really wanted to restore Eilistraee and give her some spotlight. If everything will go right, Eilistraee will be featured 4 times (even if not directly, I guess, and only in small passages/scenes giving us a some bits of new lore about her) in that book (and a further confirmation of her being alive will also be in print).