I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

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Leema Har'gachi
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I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Hey everyone. I think I’ve mentioned how I’m back in college recently, going to get the elusive Bachelors of Science Technology Management Degree. Well, one of the classes I have this semester is Entrepreneurship which of course is all about business/product planning and as most of you know I’ve been working on my own Tabletop RPG for years now. So naturally when I need to do a business model for this class I of course use my Darkness, Dragons, and Dimensions (3D’s) for the model. Well now I am to the point of figuring out whom my early adopters and basically testing out the theory.
So I was wonder if any of you would be willing (I’m pretty sure I know where Irennan stands on this subject by this point. He is pretty vocal about his experience with modern D&D and what he has done in response to it. But, hey all are welcome to give input to theses question if they feel like it). If you guys don’t want to it is of course not compulsory, but I would love to get some replies to these question to help me get a better feel of whom my early adopters are or even how many there might be.
You can answer these question in as much detail as you feel comfortable with and you can be as open as you want about your feels on the subject (finding the emotions of the adopters is basically the point).

So here it goes.
----
Do you have a dislike of modern D&D (4th & 5th Edition as a general example, but some might include 3.5/3rd there too) or don’t like to play modern D&D? If so what can you tell me about what it is about modern D&D that you find makes it such a problem to like or play, what is its major problems that keep you from enjoying it, and what kind of emotions did it make you feel while doing so? If you started feeling this way starting on an edition prior to 5th edition feel free to tell me (I’m pretty sure 4th was a deal breaker for a lot of people).
I would like to know what you’ve done in response to these problems you have with modern D&D (for example did you stop playing RPGs, started play any other RPGs, etc.), do you feel that this change fixed what you feel was the problems with Modern D&D or are you still not satisfied with what you’re doing?-----

Sorry if they feel a bit too personal for any of you. Hopefully, any of your answers will help me better understand how my game will do and what I can expect in terms of demand.
CODENAME:Leema
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Bhaern Quel
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Re: I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Bhaern Quel » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:25 pm

I wish I could help you, however have not been able to game at all.

I have read about the changes, however that is all. Some things appear better , but with out play had to know for sure.

Irennan
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Re: I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Irennan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:09 pm

Well, you already know my opinion (which is that I developed a new system for my group), but I don't actually mind *playing* D&D (I just get bored running it)--and I've only had the opportunity to play modern editionss--but that's probably because I never get to play, so when I do, I enjoy it regardless. It's also worth mentioning that my (very few experiences) playing D&D were a couple one-shots in 5e, and I only played a homebrew variant of the bard class, and combat was very sparse, so there's that.

In general, I feel that D&D spells, melee, and generally the combat system lacks oomph and is slow and anti-cinematic (this is true for both old and modern D&D). 4e made a step in a good direction (adding unique maneuvers to each calss, to make combat more cinematic and to make each class feel more unique), but also many steps in the wrong direction (combat takes ages, it's far too much wargame-y, a lot of the maneuvers feel very same-y, with really neglectable differences between A damage in B shaped area and C damage in D shaped area--I would hafve grouped up those things in a single, if more flexible, ability).

5e made a step in a good direction too, making combat much faster, but also walked back on what 4e did--5e fighters and rogues are boring in combat, because you'll mostly repeat the same thing over and over. The fighter maneuvers are also a big let down.

The D&D system (old and new) also has a glaring flaw: support for anything that isn't combat is filmsy at best (everything is basically one roll, which, from what I've read and experienced, leads many people to almost disregard these rules and let the RP sort the result out without even rolling). It really shows that D&D was developed from a wargame.

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Re: I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:35 am

Irennan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:09 pm
Well, you already know my opinion (which is that I developed a new system for my group), but I don't actually mind *playing* D&D (I just get bored running it)--and I've only had the opportunity to play modern editionss--but that's probably because I never get to play, so when I do, I enjoy it regardless. It's also worth mentioning that my (very few experiences) playing D&D were a couple one-shots in 5e, and I only played a homebrew variant of the bard class, and combat was very sparse, so there's that.
Yeah, I figure as much. You seem pretty comfortable with the solution you found to your gaming experience, though you do seem to like to experiment from our other discussions. Which is good. It does make me wonder though how many other people feel bored when running a game, from what I understand it is general hard to find someone who wants to DM.
Irennan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:09 pm
In general, I feel that D&D spells, melee, and generally the combat system lacks oomph and is slow and anti-cinematic (this is true for both old and modern D&D). 4e made a step in a good direction (adding unique maneuvers to each calss, to make combat more cinematic and to make each class feel more unique), but also many steps in the wrong direction (combat takes ages, it's far too much wargame-y, a lot of the maneuvers feel very same-y, with really neglectable differences between A damage in B shaped area and C damage in D shaped area--I would hafve grouped up those things in a single, if more flexible, ability).

5e made a step in a good direction too, making combat much faster, but also walked back on what 4e did--5e fighters and rogues are boring in combat, because you'll mostly repeat the same thing over and over. The fighter maneuvers are also a big let down.
In 4e difference (you know the thing I don't usually do for it) oD&D was basically was ment as a RPG expansion to chainmail, which of course was a wargame, though the back of the booklet did have rules for running it without chainmail it wasn't until the first supplemental booklet greyhawk where it finally separated itself from chainmail (with a few bit still in reference, but the new rule make the game completely self-sufficient. But, with that said your right combat itself could easily take 1 to 2 hours to resolve on its own. Though I didn't like the feel of the whole powers systems, I did feel giving fighters some kind of combat maneuvers or special techniques was a good idea. I just felt that they way they tried to implement them just didn't work (I'm pretty sure folding them into the power system itself wasn't a good Idea, then again I really only even felt the power system only fitted in well with the warlock).
Irennan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:09 pm
The D&D system (old and new) also has a glaring flaw: support for anything that isn't combat is filmsy at best (everything is basically one roll, which, from what I've read and experienced, leads many people to almost disregard these rules and let the RP sort the result out without even rolling). It really shows that D&D was developed from a wargame.
You gotta a good point here, especially for the older edition where there where only two actual noncombat mechanic: Dungeoneering based skills (I.E. Thieves skills) and Negotiation or better known as how friendly or hostile they are too you (I.E. The Reaction roll and reaction adjustment). Granted Gary did try to expand on the later with the Comeliness Ability score, but it was confusingly written and largely disliked by player and DMs (not helped being the only ability score where you can actually have a negative on). Modern games tried to add more mechanics for outside of combat... but, I think we have all experienced some of the issues with the skill in 3rd/3.5 that pertain to this aspect. (I'm looking at you profession skill, why they hell do I have to roll to make a weeks pay. I understand if it is like doing some kind of act [singing, dancing, playing an instrument, etc.], but you telling me that the blacksmith has to roll to each week to make sure he what? Makes enough stuff to sell for that week? I see your point, they try to make a skill out of something menial that it wouldn't be something difficult for them to do with the resources they probable have plenty in stock at their business.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

Irennan
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Re: I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Irennan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:41 pm

I was talking about giving social interactions or exploration a support in the form of mechanics that go beyond a single roll. I've read somewhere about a system that handles certain social interactions like combat. I.e., there are turns, "hp", and a certain series of actions that you can take, defensive and offensive (like counterargument, ignoring, seducing, etc...), and each does a certain amout of damage. So, when you answer to a question, or when you make a point, or when you roleplay a character trying to use their charm, you pick and action and roll for damage n(or to hit and damage, can't remember), and this goes on until one side loses all their "hp". The effectiveness if the actions, and your hp, depend on your stats, skills etc...

I don't think this is a necessarily good system, but it's a mechanical form of support for social interactions that doesn't boil down to one roll.

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Re: I have A couple of Question on your Experiences with Modern D&D for anyone willing to take some time.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:37 pm

Bhaern Quel wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:25 pm
I wish I could help you, however have not been able to game at all.

I have read about the changes, however that is all. Some things appear better , but with out play had to know for sure.
Well, I understand. Though you may not have had anytime to try out 5th edition you can, if you feel comfortable with it, tell me about any thing from your experiences with 3rd/3.5 or 4th edition that you felt was an issue with it instead and how that affected your experience.
Irennan wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:41 pm
I was talking about giving social interactions or exploration a support in the form of mechanics that go beyond a single roll. I've read somewhere about a system that handles certain social interactions like combat. I.e., there are turns, "hp", and a certain series of actions that you can take, defensive and offensive (like counterargument, ignoring, seducing, etc...), and each does a certain amout of damage. So, when you answer to a question, or when you make a point, or when you roleplay a character trying to use their charm, you pick and action and roll for damage n(or to hit and damage, can't remember), and this goes on until one side loses all their "hp". The effectiveness if the actions, and your hp, depend on your stats, skills etc...

I don't think this is a necessarily good system, but it's a mechanical form of support for social interactions that doesn't boil down to one roll.
I see, kind of makes me want to read it to see how it works in more details. It does sound interesting.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

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